A Pinnacle captain with some balls

[250 KIAS]

FLG4738 has been sitting on the pad at DCA for the last hour and a half because the crew hasn't been able to contact dispatch via ACARS to get their ammended weight, apparently everyone has gone home. The friendly 3rd shift tower controller relayed a message from Pinchnickel telling the crew to contact NWA dispatch. The captain came back and said "the only way to do that is to use my cell phone, and I'm not doing that." Kudos!

BTW, is Pinnacle block or better?

 

[chperplt]

And you know this how???

The dispatcher went home huh...The dispatcher can not go "home" until the last flight of the night has blocked in. I doubt anyone went home..

 

[PCL_128]

FLG4738 has been sitting on the pad at DCA for the last hour and a half because the crew hasn't been able to contact dispatch via ACARS to get their ammended weight, apparently everyone has gone home. The friendly 3rd shift tower controller relayed a message from Pinchnickel telling the crew to contact NWA dispatch. The captain came back and said "the only way to do that is to use my cell phone, and I'm not doing that." Kudos!

BTW, is Pinnacle block or better?

Don't know how accurate this is, but I'm glad if someone is refusing to use their cell phone to call dispatch. Too many Captains at this airline waste their minutes to call the company when they won't answer multiple ACARS messages. The dispatcher hasn't gone home I'm sure. He probably just isn't answering the message. The really sad thing is, it's probably not the dispatcher's fault either. The company throws so many flights at these dispatchers that they just can't keep up. Add into the mix a computer system that frequently goes down and the SOC just can't keep up with everything. Our dispatchers get a bad reputation sometimes because of this stuff when it really isn't their fault. Our dispatchers routinely handle 3 times the number of flights that dispatchers at other regionals handle.

No, Pinnacle is not block or better. We have a trip value system that uses the average of block times for the previous year to determine pay. You have to go more than 15 minutes over the trip value to get extra money. Sounds like this crew might have gotten more than that 15 minutes.

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

That's exactly why I only use my cell phone before 7am and after 7pm for those purposes


Sounds like another dispatch computer got nuked, as 128 said. Never had to wait that long though.


...not to mention i absolutely hate that 15 minute rule. It's nice doing alot of indy and mke flying this month that is pay by the minute.

 

[Bandit60]

If you have a problem with using your own cell minutes, just ask the passengers if anyone is willing to let you use theirs. I bet most of them will give you their phones without a problem as long as you get them going to their destination.


Problem solved.

 

[CLECA]

You don't have any other means? Can't they get a radio patch or something else? Sounds like they didn't try very hard. I hope they explained to the folks that they were late because he didn't want to use his cell phone.

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

If you have a problem with using your own cell minutes, just ask the passengers if anyone is willing to let you use theirs. I bet most of them will give you their phones without a problem as long as you get them going to their destination.


Problem solved.

Jesus, I hope you are kidding.

 

[Propsync]

You don't have any other means? Can't they get a radio patch or something else? Sounds like they didn't try very hard. I hope they explained to the folks that they were late because he didn't want to use his cell phone.

No, they didn't try very hard. I don't have the Jepp chart in front of me, but I believe Delta/Atlanta Radio has a RCO on the field. I think that probably would have worked well.

 

[Fly2Scuba]

If you have a problem with using your own cell minutes, just ask the passengers if anyone is willing to let you use theirs. I bet most of them will give you their phones without a problem as long as you get them going to their destination.


Problem solved.

Yea, and then ask the passengers to chip in an extra couple hundred dollars to pay the pilots a decent wage and make up for some of the piss poor contract issues over there.

 

[Captain Overs]

That was stupid of the CA. Aren't we in the business to move people from point A to point B? If you don't like something the company is doing you should take it up with them at an appropriate time. Don't get in a pissing match and punish the people in the back.


If what you posted is correct then that shows a lack of class.

 

[shamrock]

...but I believe Delta/Atlanta Radio has a RCO on the field. I think that probably would have worked well.

Would Atlanta radio be of any use to Pinnacle or NWA?

 

[PCL_128]

That was stupid of the CA. Aren't we in the business to move people from point A to point B?

Yes, we are in the business of moving people. However, using my cell phone is not in the job description. The company doesn't pay for my cell phone, so I don't use it for company business. If the company wants to start buying my phone and paying for part of the monthly bill, then I'll start using it for company business. Until then, I'll continue to use the method of contacting dispatch that the company provides: ACARS. It's time to stop bending over backwards to help a company that screws you over every chance they can. If we don't have delays because of things like this, then the company will never fix the problem.

 

[Flying Illini]

get rollover!

 

[Donsa320]

Outrageous

"Good Evening ladies and gentleman, this is your captain speaking. We are waiting for our company to contact us. I could use my cell phone but darnit I don't want to spend the 12cents. So we will sit here. Are you all with me on this....hello, is anybody back there, hellooo"....


Jesus man I'm glad I'm retired and don't have to associate with you jerks that have taken my place. Outrageous!

~DC

 

[SennaP1]

"

Jesus man I'm glad I'm retired and don't have to associate with you jerks that have taken my place. Outrageous!

~DC

I hope you are enjoying that retirement.

 

[tarp]

Let's play a game.

You are based at LGA, company says a part came in for a sick plane but they sent it to JFK, can you take your car and go get the part.

Are you going to make company pay for gas?

The company says, "heck no" they're not paying for gas for 26 mile trip - a gallon of gas - $2.50 max out of your pocket. But if you don't pick up that part, a plane is grounded and 50 passengers are stuck at LGA looking for options on how to get to their destination.

Is the problem the pilot's or is the problem the company's?

So when company has considered YOUR cell phone as an essential device to THEIR operation - does that make it right?

Pilot wages are probably 60% of what they used to be - I haven't heard of too many people getting pay increases in the last few years. Company has cut your benefits. They have renegotiated work rules so you are working longer and harder and at their disposal more hours out of the week. But you want to be generous and help THEIR customers by using YOUR cell phone.

You have no one to blame but yourselves for the paycheck you receive for your services.

No company in the world will fix anything or pay more for something unless they see a need. But 50 letters to the president from irate customers stuck on the ground will cause a great deal of upheaval for change. A plane did not move for lack of communication - now its Pinnacle's problem to fix as long as you don't fix it for them. The choices are fix the ACARS that may not have been working, hire more dispatchers because the ones on duty were too busy to answer ACARS, pay the bills to ARINC or Delta Radio to make the phone patch or maybe even allow the pilots to put in expense reimbursements for cell phone usage. But if you fix the problem for free, the company will gladly accept your charity.

Every single pilot on this board needs to start thinking like a contractor. You are limited to 1000 flying hours a year by the FAA. You get paid XX dollars per flight hour (Let's just say a young regional CA and put $60/hr). That's a dollar a flight minute. Every minute of your time is worth $1 to the company to act as a pilot. Yet, you show up to work, get dispatches, update your Jepps, pre-flight the airplane, feed the computers, taxi all over creation, sit on the tarmac and don't get paid a dime to do it. So that $1/min just became about 50 cents a minute. And then you commute to work and sit in hotels and have dinners at strange restaurants in strange places and wish you were home while you further diluted your earnings and now you are making 25 cents a minute.

Before I was furloughed, I was at the bottom of the seniority list. My last month had me on the road (Away from Base) for over 300 hours. I got paid for 71 hours of flight time at $34/hr. Do the math - I got paid $8.06/hour (13.4 cents a minute) to be a pilot working for a regional airline. And you want me to give the company cell phone minutes for free?

 

[Captain Overs]

BOO HOO!!! You have a responsibility to the people in your care. Like I said, take it up with the company but don't punish the passengers. Am I the only who thinks this is an outrage?

 

[PCL_128]

take it up with the company

This is the only way to take it up with the company. The only way to make the idiots in managament realize that there is a problem is to cost them money. Delays result in financial penalties under the air service agreement we have with NWA. The more financial penalties the company takes, the less money that senior management can pocket in bonus checks. That makes them sit up and pay attention. Working with management is not an option at this company. It's a constant fight.

 

[dhc8fo]

Am I the only who thinks this is an outrage?

Yes.... I agree with TARP and I like the analogy.

If I worked for a company who actually gave a crap about my well-being on ANY level, I would bend over backwards to help it succeed and we would all be happy.

Right now, the love of flying is the only sustaining quality most airlines provide to the pilots.

If making some pax 15 minutes late here and there makes a point and improves the QOL, you bet your ass I would do the same thing. Management doesn't listen to the pilots, so maybe it would listen to some complaining customers????!!

Nothing unsafe or wrong about what that CA did. In fact, it was perfectly safe and by the book. Nowhere in anyone's OP Spec does it say that you have to use your own personal cell phone to call dispatch.

 

[FreedomAList]

300 of 600 anytime cell phone minutes dealing with:

Dispatcher's who can't dispatch properly (no alternates, wrong weather, etc.)

Mechanics who can't fix stuff, or sign off properly when they do.

Crew Trackers who can't staff a full, legal, qualified crew.

Hmm. They don't get the cell phone treatment anymore. They could EASILY put a phone in every plane slaved to the company phone #, but why bother when pilot's bend over to pay for their own phones?

Face it, company is smart, pilots are stupid on this one.

 

[TIS]

That was stupid of the CA. Aren't we in the business to move people from point A to point B?

No, the company is.

If you don't like something the company is doing you should take it up with them at an appropriate time.

I'm quite confident they have. I'm also quite confident no one at that company, in business to move people around, was listening.

Don't get in a pissing match and punish the people in the back.

Fine, then pick up the mesages and respond to them as probably every manual on the subject of company operations says to do.

If what you posted is correct then that shows a lack of class.

Yup! It sure does. A company that relies on its pilots' personal expenditures to help float their less-than-adequate operational scheme has no class!

 

[TIS]

BOO HOO!!! You have a responsibility to the people in your care. Like I said, take it up with the company but don't punish the passengers. Am I the only who thinks this is an outrage?

Again you pin the happiness of the passengers squarely on the actions of the crew but that just ain't all there is to it - and with 15,000 hours you KNOW that!

It may well be an outrage but the pilot was WELL within his rights to decline to use a form of communication that is a) probably illegal once the plane is underway according to their own pre-departure briefing, and b) generates a cost of operation to be bourne by the company, not it's employees.

A company with some class gets its ducks in a row. This one clearly doesn't - at least not all the time - and therein lies the outrage sir. Leave the pilots out of it. They're just doing their jobs.

 

[TWA Dude]

If you use your cellphone for business purposes it becomes tax-deductable.

 

[SkyWestCRJPilot]

I was curious how much I used my cell phone for calling the company for work last month. I looked on my statement and I called the company for work related issues (maintenance, dispatch, etc.) 53 minutes. That amounts to $4.51 last month for my cell phone plan. Now it sure would be nice to have the company pay for that. But had I spent 10 minutes getting out of the cockpit every time to find a landline phone or waited 10 minutes for an ACARS message instead of just using my cell phone then I would have spent 3 hours and 20 minutes of my own time, and almost all of it in the cockpit at the gate not with the main cabin door closed making money. I consider the $4.51 well worth it for my own savings of time. What do you want? Do you want the company to pay you $4.51 a month in cell phone expenses? If so they'll negotiate something else in return which will cost you much more. Pick your battles. Cell phones expenses aren't it.

 

[PCL_128]

What do you want? Do you want the company to pay you $4.51 a month in cell phone expenses?

No, I want the company to fix the root cause of the problem. The problem here is that the company is not answering messages that are being sent by approved means. The dispatchers are so overworked and understaffed that they can't handle all the flights that are thrown at them each hour. Our computer systems used in SOC are so old that they sometimes crash several times an hour. The cell phone minutes isn't the issue, the issue is an entire support structure that is practically nonexistent. The only way to fix that is by taking delays because of it. Without that, management will just turn their back on the problem and gladly accept the "help" from the pilot force. The pilots have to do more than our fair share at this company to keep things running smoothly. It's time for managment to shift the burdens where they actually belong.

 

[redbook]

cell phone expenses are a real and legitimate expense. Trans States, despite our current problems, will reimburse pilots for the minutes used in company business. Just submit an expense report and you are paid. I think you guys might be just assuming you are not going to get reimbursed at other airlines.

 

[PCL_128]

Just submit an expense report and you are paid. I think you guys might be just assuming you are not going to get reimbursed at other airlines.

It's been tried. Management at Pinnacle does not reimburse for cell phone expenses.

 

[jayme]

SkyWest does, according to a captain I just flew with.

 

[Flying Illini]

Ok, lets look at this from another perspective. The passenger. If I knew that I was sitting in an uncomfortable, hot, metal tube for 1.5 hrs b/c the pilots wouldn't use 2 measly cell minutes because "it's the principle of the matter," not only would I be writing a letter to management about it, I would have volunteered my phone to get us on our way!

Ok, company approved avenues didn't work, you can sit and play disgruntled airline pilot, OR you can get your phone, make a phone call and quickly explain the situation, then hang up (1 or 2 minute phone call) then wait for your ACARS message.

I agree, you have to draw the line somewhere, but if you have to use your cell phone for company business twice a month, then so be it. If it's being abused by the company, then it's a problem, but you could have had 50 happy pax, instead you have 50 unhappy pax.

Just get the job done.


Oh yeah, I sometimes have to use my cell phone in Canada on business. The company didn't use to reimburse us, though they do now. But it's a flat rate and it doesn't cover my entire plan. So I guess, calls that have to be made in Canada, still come out of my pocket, oh well, it's got to be done to get the job done and to keep the customers happy.

 

[SkyBoy1981]

There's a few that can't seem to get by the cell phone issue. I don't work for Pinnacle, and thankfully where I work this is rarely ever an issue. But like PCL said this issue at Pinnacle apparently goes much deeper than simply using a cell phone. It is a staffing problem that needs to be fixed. If people keep going on a limb to "get the job done", then why should the company ever be motiviated to get their act together?