A loyal Platinum Delta business pass speaks up

[Whirlwind]

Whirlwind,

I do not think that DL is in as much financial trouble as the media and other outlets are leading people to believe.

Perhaps... My view is that they have a problem well beyond pilot pay, they have a broken business model which doesn't work. Either be a SWA, or be better and charge for it.

Will the pilots end up taking pay cuts?

This is about more than pay cuts. Delta pilots could work for free and it wouldn't fix the problem Delta has.

My view is that Delta's real problem is that they are not charging enough per ticket to support their cost structure.

There are a few reasons for this, lack of pricing power, too many seats moving about the skies, customers expecting to fly for next to nothing, etc.

Regardless of the reasons, you cannot sell $129 tickets for 5 hour flights across the country and expect to make any money at it.

I wonder how many pilots actually look at what tickets cost. Go do a few searches on Expedia, I think you'll find that on popular routes, everyone charges about the same price.

For example, in two weeks I'm going to be flying from DFW to DEN, a 2 hour flight each way. I have 5 different airlines to pick from (non-stop):

American / MD-80
Delta / CRJ700 (flown by ASA)
United / 737-800
US Airways / 737-500
Frontier / A319

All but US Airways charge $297 round trip. It doesn't matter in the least which of these airlines I fly on, other than which has the schedule which works the best for me.

If you want "class" and top notch service then you fly Delta, if you want to join a cattle heard, save money, eat peanuts, and make five stops to get to where you want to go to then SWA would be more than happy to take your money.

350, I want to make clear that I'm not bashing Delta here, so I'll use American for the time being...

Flying in coach on a MD-80 on American has no more "class" than flying on a 737 on SouthWest. I've done both enough to never want to do either again.

I do think they can make it happen but I also do agree with you that they must ditch this direct competition with the SWA's of the industry.

Maybe Delta should ditch the coach seats and go all first class. Offer tickets for about twice what SWA charges and offer a truly superior product. Who knows, it might just work...

 

[46Driver]

I have friends who make more than enough money in the business world ($180k per year) to fly any airline they choose, and they LIKE to fly Southwest. And despite me flying for Delta Connection, they tell me in no uncertain terms how much they hate Delta (mainline and DCI). Lot of that is probably due to the $2000 evening gown Delta lost when she flew Delta to Paris..... Now they try to fly Southwest within the continental US and choose a foreign carrier when flying overseas.

As for Independence Air, it is the whole point of all the people driving from Northern Virginia up to Baltimore to fly Southwest that we are hoping for. As long as we are close in price, we will be fine. NEVER underestimate the American desire for convenience.........

 

[350DRIVER]

I think the point you are missing is that the loyal and faithful passengers ARE jumping ship because the quality of the product has deteriorated. Delta is no longer comparable to the Mercedes you reference in your post.

Have you taken a look at the summer loads for Delta? I didn't think so... Why is Delta no longer comparable to the product that it once was and what are you basing your opinions on? I shall patiently await your response. I love it, one guy has a bad experience on DL and now they have deteriorated to this evil product that is no longer any good... Give me a break-

Perhaps... My view is that they have a problem well beyond pilot pay, they have a broken business model which doesn't work. Either be a SWA, or be better and charge for it.

I agree, the problem is bigger than pilot pay, the main reason that the pilots are in no rush to take the cuts. I don't really think the business model is broken, I just think they need to get their flying back and getting back to doing what made them so successful in the first place. I don't think you will ever see the day that DL mirrors the SWA image, highly unlikely..... I don't think they were ever on the same level at Southwest.

Maybe Delta should ditch the coach seats and go all first class. Offer tickets for about twice what SWA charges and offer a truly superior product. Who knows, it might just work...

I think Midwest Airlines is all first class and last I checked the funeral director is on stby. This cannot and will not work at DL, impossible. This has some to do with the cost per ticket but much more to do with getting the mainline flying back to mainline. You cannot replace 37 flying with the RJ and expect miracles to happen, just is not going to work. The first class cabin has been profitable to Delta on most routes but you cannot go all first class....


Should be interesting times ahead but I don't expect DL to be going away. Airways is in a world of trouble in comparison to DL.

As for Independence Air, it is the whole point of all the people driving from Northern Virginia up to Baltimore to fly Southwest that we are hoping for. As long as we are close in price, we will be fine. NEVER underestimate the American desire for convenience.........

I like the postive attitude but if you don't think that you have a huge uphill battle then they are giving ya'll some good kool aid over there... When you lost UAL you had nothing left at your disposal but this "gamble". I wish you the best but it surely ain't going to be as sweet as roses...


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[46Driver]

Its all a "gamble" in the aviation industry. Would I rather be whipsawed against numerous other regionals for a bankrupt legacy carrier or take my chances alone? With the airline industry in such a turbulent state, I think it is better to be small and nimble right now. No doubt, it is going to be tough sledding but better than the alternative. Personally, I would rather swing for the fences.

 

[350DRIVER]

I wish you much luck, hopefully you won't need too much of it though.... I guess the alternative of becoming Mesa couldn't have made ya'll too happy anyways so your group is shooting for stars.

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[CatYaaak]

350 writes: "If you want "class" and top notch service then you fly Delta".....



This is too funny! Sorry, but Delta is a "Mercedes"? You need to get out more, my friend.

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

I recently got married and we went to London and Zurich for the honeymoon. We went standby on Delta and were able to get in Business Elite. I must tell you it was top notch all the way. The cabin crew couldn't be nicer and more attentive and no we didn't mention the honeymoon part either. ALL of the passengers were commenting on the service. Coming back a week later from ZRH it was a totally different crew and it was top notch again. In both cases they obviously knew were were non revs but it made NO difference. Excellent trips both ways.
I know, though, as most do, that there are many exceptions to that unfortunately. All I can do for my part is the best I can. I hop out and thank the passengers each time they get off the ATR either at the out-station or in ATL. About 80 percent say either thanks or goodbye or both. Can't make everyone happy but I try my hardest to. Plenty of folks have said they were surprised that the ATR was actually more comfortable than the RJ!

Just trying to enjoy the job!

 

[Whirlwind]

Have you taken a look at the summer loads for Delta?

Yes, they are quite high, which is why the recall triggers kicked in.

The problem is those loads were acheved by selling tickets below cost, which is a lousy long term business model.

Why is Delta no longer comparable to the product that it once was and what are you basing your opinions on?

Because the service in coach on domestic flights isn't any better than the LLCs. That's my opinion, you sound like you disagree with it, which is fine. I just don't feel there is a difference when flying domestic coach.

I just think they need to get their flying back and getting back to doing what made them so successful in the first place.

I'm curious to know what you think that is. It can't just be putting mainline airplanes and pilots back on the domestic routes, those planes cost more, not less, to fly.

The thing is, if you charge SWA prices you have to offer SWA service. If Delta wants to be better than SWA, they have to charge more. I'm curious to know if you have an idea of how they can do that, because I haven't thought of one yet.

 

[AA717driver]

Ben--From my perspective, just about all your problems have been generated by the MBA's in the accounting department of (insert legacy carrier name here).

I am ex-TWA/furloughed AA. I've seen good management(the last several years of TWA's life) and bad management(TWA until it was too late and AA--their corporate culture is only marginally better than the Soviet Union under Stalin).

One thing I find either ironic or sickening is that Don Carty lamented the fact that AA couldn't match the performance of Dallas neighbor, Southwest. Duh! SWA prides itself on how it treats its employees and the rest of the business takes care of itself. AA micromanages every aspect of the company and maintains the policy of "the floggings will continue until morale improves".

Do senior managers make statements like Carty did and really believe them or are they trying to make the employees think they believe them? Either way, now there are two templates on how to successfully run an airline--SWA and JetBlue.

As long as the bean counters run the business, customer service will suffer.TC

P.S.--Now that I am a corporate pilot I will be airlining around a fair amount so I get to "enjoy" the same experience you business travellers have been experiencing...

 

[Majik]

I have been reading this board after stumbling across it. For reference sake, I live in Atlanta, have been Platinum for 10 years, and am in the 2 million mile club. I am a VP of sales for a 3.6 billion dollar company.
I can't stand Delta anymore, but have no choice but to continue flying them in most cases. I tried stopping for 6 months last year, but it cut into my family time too much. The way they treat there customers is terrible. More on that later.

Years ago, I had no problem spending 2100 for a full fare ticket at the last minute.

Has your company ever thought about NetJets? Avoid the congestion at the main terminal. Save the 2 hrs waiting to get x-rayed and probed. Tired of standing in line like a sheep? Save the 30-40 minutes waiting for your luggage to appear on the other end (if it does) and then try to find your ground transportation. Want to feel like you are the most important person on the plane again? Want to fly from any small airport in the ATL area direct to any small airport in the US or abroad? Ever want to leave your house, travel to 3 cities for 3 different business meetings in the same day? Many businesses have happily made the switch and have discovered that service is still alive, although at a price. www.netjets.com