A loyal Platinum Delta business pass speaks up

[JungleJetFO]

Mr. Jakes,
Thank you for your commentary. It has actually given me a little bit of the jolt I need to remember I am in a customer oriented profession. I sometimes forget that after a 12-14 hour work day in which, I too, have been sitting around waiting for weather to clear up or maintenance on the jet. I wish I had a little more influence on all the others in my profession to remember that too. I have flown with good and bad pilots and flight attendants in this area and it's amazing how one person can make a difference. I have flown flights that arrived 10 minutes early and all the passengers are mad because the flight attendant treated them like crap and I've been on flights in which we were an hour late but all the passengers just raved about the flight because the flight attendant treated them great.
You too can be an influence with letters to management and union leaders even if you think you haven't been heard. Hopefully, over time, positive changes will be made. Until then, you'll have to make your point by flying the airlines that are best for you. I've heard a lot of Jet Blue bashing from fellow pilots but to tell you the truth, we need these new airlines to keep from getting fat and ugly and arrogant. Maybe it's too late for some of the legacy airlines, I hope not.

regards

 

[350DRIVER]

I have been reading this board after stumbling across it. For reference sake, I live in Atlanta, have been Platinum for 10 years, and am in the 2 million mile club. I am a VP of sales for a 3.6 billion dollar company.

wow, would you like a cookie?. I can think of quite a few friends that can easily top that. For everyone of the likes of you that may not be pleased, guess what? There many many more that are very pleased with the service that DL provides on a daily basis. You are not pleased? then do not fly on them anymore, saying you don't have a choice is BS....

It isn't about the DL pilots....

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[:-)]

Calvin,

You are right about me becoming defensive. Writing is difficult sometimes, because the wrong emotion is sometimes read into a statement.

My apologies. I will wait until all read and or post to get more perspective.

Ben,

PS-I read the board for about 3 weeks.... But I can allways learn

No apology necessary. Now that we've gotten to this point, I agree with you that we all need to be courteous. If I was first Lady, I think I'd make courtesy my "issue". I'm not going to be first, or a lady , anytime soon, but they always have a pet issue so it seems like a good illustration.

If you want to experience discourteous agents, try being an offline jumpseater. To be fair, I can't name a specific airline, but there are some witch's out there. BTW, the pilots here know this, but an offline jumpseater has no rights of travel. We beg for a ride. I, for one, never act as if I expect anything and am always polite to a fault (I want to get home, I don't mind groveling to get there), however I sometimes receive worse treatment than would a stray dog. The fact that such an employee continues to maintain his/her employment astounds me.

Please continue posting. and don't take anything personal.

 

[JohnDoe]

quote:
"wow, would you like a cookie?. I can think of quite a few friends that can easily top that. For everyone of the likes of you that may not be pleased, guess what? There many many more that are very pleased with the service that DL provides on a daily basis. You are not pleased? then do not fly on them anymore, saying you don't have a choice is BS...."



Nice......and proved his point quite well I might add.........

 

[350DRIVER]

Point is that he is not satisfied, the very simple and elementary solution would be to not fly on them anymore, not brain surgery.

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keep in mind that you will normally only hear the complaint and negative stories, God forbid someone would actually post a good experience on them then they would get flamed.

 

[tscarecrow]

why?

350 -

There is an interesting, rational discussion taking place here (not a common thing on this BBS), and you choose to come along with that worthless tidbit of negativity. How disappointing.

Sorry to interject here folks, please carry on with this discussion. I'm finding it very enlightening.

 

[rvsm410]

The Most for the Least..getting what you pay for.

This is a great Heart and Soul thread, where almost all the parties involved have come to this table, the customer, the Pilots, Flight attendants, and a dispatcher, of course no management….they cant think outside the box to save there life anyway.

I agree with most all of what I have read on this thread, especially with "blueblood" about getting what we pay for. The problem is the "Wal-Mart" mentality of the passengers....they want all the services but don’t want to pay for them....But why is this?

When the auto gas prices go up, do we stop driving? No, we complain about it, and then go fill up the old SUV so we can continue with our plans and daily life. Did you know that a Gallon on 87 in Britian costs $5.69! They still drive.


Same goes for much in our lives, food, the cost of housing, rent or buying, insurance etc etc..we still pay the higher prices...it’s just what things cost now. Somehow the airlines have been excluded from this Normal economic reality ever since deregulation...The consumer has developed a "garage sale mentality" and will always demand lower prices if the situation allows it, our industry has allowed it to happen to itself and now it is imploding because the prices have NOT kept up with inflation like everything else has…..


Does anyone really think todays LLC fares are going to be the same in 10 years when their labor rates match and exceed todays mainline rates??? Cost of aircraft go up, Of course not....this will happen all over agin in 10 years, except it will be aimed at todays LCC's then.


So today, the classic management response thus far is to cut labor costs, cut services, get smaller, reorganize routes, and schedules etc…..the only thing we have not done is tell the American public, its going to cost more in the future to fly, and it is not coming back down….That's it!

If you want to enjoy a pleasant flight, get service, travel 6 mile a minute and and avoid that 4 day drive, it has to be worth paying for.


People are already tired of the 50-70 seat sardine cans…..They have there place to serve.

People are tried of the cattle car routine with no assigned seating, long lines.

People really do like to have nice services, and miss them, this will get worse.

People are tired of the TSA at airports, but they are getting over it and just doing it! I hope this will get better.


The LCC’s can’t fly everyone ( they account for 27% of all passengers) if the Majors were to just stop flying for a week or more in support of each others efforts to raise prices to make a profit maybe the industry would get some attention. Could you imagine the lines at the SWA counters. They could not handle it. The passengers would be really pissed off at everyone! But we would get their attention.

Yeap I’m talking about a monopoly on flying, of course its illegal, the government would stop it, but what is the government going to do if ALL the MAJORS went belly up? The results are the same but the companies are GONE.


Sure people will flock to the LCC’s for at first, they will drive, and some large layoffs would occur at mainline while jets are parked….it’s going to be a shock to the system, but they will get over it….and we will better for it I the LONG run. Something BIG has to happen to get out of this cycle of doom and gloom….


I think it’s time for a form of price regulation by the government; After all isn't the ATSB nothing more than a subsidy anyway. The public will get over it and time heals all.


And Speaking of a Wal-Mart mentality, those aviation professionals out here willing to work for what seems any amount of money just to wear a uniform or cut a flight release, well you are doing the same thing the passengers are doing to the airlines, allowing yourself to be bought CHEAP. Then we have the gall to complain about it later?

I for one have interviewed with many regional carriers, offered jobs and turned them down because I will not work for the peanuts they want to pay. As a former Military aircraft commander the responsibilities of a pilot are enormous, we all know this to be so, however, after loosing my medical retiring and going into dispatch, the responsibilities are equally as challenging but different in that we are not sitting in the pointy end of the can, never the less we may be the only one at that dredded NTSB review answering for our flight with our butts on the line. We should be compensated according to our level of responsibility just as a pilot should.

I think it’s shameful to pay dispatchers and pilots $17K to $25K a year with all they are in control of, I feel some of the unions are a great contributing factor to this syndrome along with the companies attitude towards pay, it needs to be broke! Regional Jobs are the only jobs most will ever have, pay them....

Sure you say its easy for me to say, I’m drawing retirement pay….will all the more reason that I “could” accept minimal pay to dispatch for the “love of it” but I am not going to sell myself down the river for the “love of Aviation” even if I never release another flight. I personally believe more folks should do the same, Bring it to the attention of managers and unions, it will take time. Dry up the new hire supply and see what would happen to starting pay. But this is just my opinion for which I stand true.



Col. Bill Williamson USAF (ret)

 

[350DRIVER]

scarecrow,

interesting discussion? OK.......the original poster was displeased with DL, product, service, etc, and I simply was pointing out that there was a very very simple solution to this problem, do not fly DL. This is not brain surgery, what positive will come from this? As a former DL employee myself I can tell you that no matter what kind of product that you have you still will never please everyone. The bottom line is that DL has very loyal pax who have been around for years, enjoy the service, etc, and that ain't going to change due to a few that are not pleased.

Comparing DL to Jetblue is like comparing a Mercedes 500SL to a Cavalier, big difference in service, product, pay, etc. I merely pointed out that if he was so pleased with JB then that would be the route that he should take...


DL pilots set the bar back in 2000 with regards to pilot pay and even with the cuts they will end up taking they will still be the highest paid in the industry, sorry if that p!sses some off....



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[Whirlwind]

There is a simple truth that has been overlooked by all but a few...

American Airlines charges $129 to fly from New York to Los Angeles. How the heck can you make any money selling tickets on a Boeing 757 for that price?

Maybe that price made sense 15 years ago, but in 2004???

Lets look at a few numbers... The plane has about 200 seats, lets say they fill 70% of them. It also has 8 first class seats, 4 of which have paying pax at $464 each way.

That is a total of $19916 in income. Anyone have any idea what it costs to fly a 757 across the United States? I'm willing to bet that once you count in all the expenses, it is higher than $20K.

There, in a nutshell, is what is wrong with this business. The prices are not high enough to support the product being offered.

Thoughts?

 

[Whirlwind]

Comparing DL to Jetblue is like comparing a Mercedes 500SL to a Cavalier, big difference in service, product, pay, etc.

Eh? I hate to say it, but I disagree. I've flown both, and there really isn't any real difference, other than the fact that JetBlue has much newer airplanes.

Both get you from here to there, at about the same speed, on the same basic type of airplane (a metal tube with wings that goes ~mach 0.85)