A loyal Platinum Delta business pass speaks up

[benjakes]

scarecrow,

interesting discussion? OK.......the original poster was displeased with DL, product, service, etc, and I simply was pointing out that there was a very very simple solution to this problem, do not fly DL. This is not brain surgery, what positive will come from this? As a former DL employee myself I can tell you that no matter what kind of product that you have you still will never please everyone. The bottom line is that DL has very loyal pax who have been around for years, enjoy the service, etc, and that ain't going to change due to a few that are not pleased.

Comparing DL to Jetblue is like comparing a Mercedes 500SL to a Cavalier, big difference in service, product, pay, etc. I merely pointed out that if he was so pleased with JB then that would be the route that he should take...

350- Great analogy. What I am trying to point out is that Delta is now GM, and JB is Toyota 10-15 years ago. No one thought that the threat would evolve and last....


DL pilots set the bar back in 2000 with regards to pilot pay and even with the cuts they will end up taking they will still be the highest paid in the industry, sorry if that p!sses some off....



3 5 0[/QUOTE]

 

[tlax25]

Standman,


It is not that I don't like RJ's. I travel a decent amount for work - 10 roundtrips a month from Chicago. The RJ is fine for trips no more than 1 1/2 hours. After that, forget about it. I am 6'4, 200lbs. I could care less about the food, movies, music, all that garbage. What I care about is the ability to be somewhat comfortable and to be able to work on my laptop while flying. I cannot do that on an RJ. And sitting with my knees practically touching my forehead for more than an hour gets uncomfortable as well. So I guess my problem with the RJ is that they are used on routes that they should not be...keep them on routes of an hour or less in my opinion.

 

[benjakes]

Standman,


It is not that I don't like RJ's. I travel a decent amount for work - 10 roundtrips a month from Chicago. The RJ is fine for trips no more than 1 1/2 hours. After that, forget about it. I am 6'4, 200lbs. I could care less about the food, movies, music, all that garbage. What I care about is the ability to be somewhat comfortable and to be able to work on my laptop while flying. I cannot do that on an RJ. And sitting with my knees practically touching my forehead for more than an hour gets uncomfortable as well. So I guess my problem with the RJ is that they are used on routes that they should not be...keep them on routes of an hour or less in my opinion.

Agreed- I am about the same size (6-3 215).

a couple of other reasons though (most my fault).

1 I hit my head someplace (getting in, overheads, bin's hanging down, exit signs.) on every flight.

2 I don't know the seat dynamics. All I know is that shoulder room, especially in a window seat, is terrible.

3 Having to drag luggage up and down steps, and go in and out of weather, to get on the plane.

4 I have to wait for luggage sometimes out in the rain (dif size limits w/carry ons)

5 Last but not least, twice on late flights back into ATL from Syracuse, ATL was so jammed we had to wait almost 2 hours AFTER we landed to get a gate, so I was on the plane for 5+ hours (ground hold). This sucks.

 

[benjakes]

Lrjtcaptain,

You took the words right out of my mouth.... You will never see the DL faithful jump ship to SWA. Southwest has always catered to that "specific" class of passengers, just take a walk through the the SWA terminal at Hobby on any given friday. It was pretty comical way back in the day when I was employed as a DL agent and we got to witness first hand those goin the SWA way, I felt as if I was in Mexico and in a minority.

"Class" can not be bought at a discount fare nor will it be seen by those strapped for money.

Two completely different business platforms and animals here.

3 5 0

Never flown them....My manager out of KC flies them all the time. He is old school (or maybe good school). He feels if he can save the company a penny, he gets part of it back in his profit sharing check.

 

[rumpletumbler]

I remember *sniffle* when Delta flew the coolest plane in the universe. But...*sniffle* they threw them away. The L-1011 was the grandest of all cattle cars. Way back in coach where the vibration was so severe on takeoff you thought about asking for a tool kit to tighten your seat. It was awesome! A real airplane. BenJakes....you should demand that the L-1011 be put back in service. A real airplane for real men.

 

[benjakes]

Ben--From my perspective, just about all your problems have been generated by the MBA's in the accounting department of (insert legacy carrier name here).

I am ex-TWA/furloughed AA. I've seen good management(the last several years of TWA's life) and bad management(TWA until it was too late and AA--their corporate culture is only marginally better than the Soviet Union under Stalin).

One thing I find either ironic or sickening is that Don Carty lamented the fact that AA couldn't match the performance of Dallas neighbor, Southwest. Duh! SWA prides itself on how it treats its employees and the rest of the business takes care of itself. AA micromanages every aspect of the company and maintains the policy of "the floggings will continue until morale improves".

Do senior managers make statements like Carty did and really believe them or are they trying to make the employees think they believe them? Either way, now there are two templates on how to successfully run an airline--SWA and JetBlue.

As long as the bean counters run the business, customer service will suffer.TC

P.S.--Now that I am a corporate pilot I will be airlining around a fair amount so I get to "enjoy" the same experience you business travellers have been experiencing...

AA-We have managers like that in my company also, I think most do. It is like the rest of the world. It is funny, he probably has perfect grammer!

 

[benjakes]

There's nothing classy about flying Delta anymore whether it's an RJ or mainline. The service is barebones at best. People don't choose DL because it's classy...they choose DL either because it's convenient or it's cheap. Class left DL about ten years ago.


Here's one article I found about DL's "superior" product...somehow I couldn't find one article about DL's superior service:

http://www.bcentral.com/articles/elliott/155.asp

"According to those of you who contacted me, it's more a combination of poor service and cramped flying conditions that puts Delta over the top. (Coincidentally, Delta recently admitted that its service had slipped and promised to do better; so hopefully this carrier will work its way off this list.)"

I guess I am not alone.....

 

[benjakes]

I still can't figure out why so many people are disliking RJs. What is wrong with them. They help to increase frequency for business travels, no middle seats, and faster deplane times. If you want to get a movie and a meal those typically are only found on long distance flights anyway. What kind of service are you looking for on flights 2 hours or less. I frankly can't tell the difference between flying on an RJ or any mainline plane on these short flights.

I can't get a meal in first class from Nevada to ATL half the time (No kidding!). I'm used to going hungry.

Which is a great point. Are the airlines new "pay meals/snacks" working? I think it is a great enovation. Just curious, as it show as a possible new revenue stream.

 

[rumpletumbler]

I think it is a great enovation.

Which proves that you don't have to be able to spell to have a great job.

 

[benjakes]

Over the years, the yield management systems developed by the airlines overcame a deteriorating margin as more and more customers were looking for and finding discounted tickets.

It became a science to get both the business customer and the vacationing family all on the same plane paying extremely different prices for the same product.

While the airlines thought it cool, the business people did not as they were paying through the nose for tickets while Joe and his family were annoying them at a deeply discounted ticket/

I have probably over 700,000 miles on Delta and for years and years they and Piedmont were two of my favorite airlines to fly. Southern hospitatlity if you will. Of course, US managed to screw up the Piedmont airline and Delta tried vanely to get everyone to Atlanta.

Anyone who does not think that the product has not gone south is not looking. Since 9/11, I have flown Air Tran, America West, Southwest, Delta, and American. They all left on time, arrived on time, were reasonably full. Other than being able to see the seating chart and getting what I want on Delta's web site, the service was pretty much the same.

We have not discussed it much, but the death of travel agents is indicative of the travel trends as much as anything. They made their money off expensive tickets, and the web made their knowledge obsolete.

The American traveling public made it known before now that they were not happy with the fare, it has just taken the industry longer to accept it because yield management and other efficiencies masked what was happening.

Well said! Two things to add. Legacy's have cut most of their walk up fares by half or two thirds to compete after "yield management" started failing.

#2 It has become an accepted business practice (unless issue is serious) to "video conference". It is no longer an insult to say "Mr Customer, I could be there in the morning, and will be if you want me to, but my ticket at this late date is 1000.00. Is this something we can discuss in a video conference tomorrow, and then finalize next week? A customer views this favorably, because the message you are sending is that of a well run company, while leaving the decision to them. Lower overhead is translated (rightly or wrongly) to a better price.

 

[benjakes]

Q!

Which proves that you don't have to be able to spell to have a great job.

You are so right!

 

[chperplt]

I can't get a meal in first class from Nevada to ATL half the time (No kidding!). I'm used to going hungry.

I'm going to have to call bullsh!t on that one. As a non rev on Delta at least 2 times a week (to and from Nevada), I have never seen anyone go without food in first class. As a nonrev, I would be the last one to get fed, and I have never been asked to go without.

 

[benjakes]

I'm going to have to call bullsh!t on that one. As a non rev on Delta at least 2 times a week (to and from Nevada), I have never seen anyone go without food in first class. As a nonrev, I would be the last one to get fed, and I have never been asked to go without.

Ok, bull**CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** is right. I don't consider the Delta Deli's on a red eye a meal. Technically, you are right.

Ben

PS- I could get a beer, so why am I bitchin?

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!


My wife loves RJs.

Before the RJs, we had no Delta service, and a lot of turboprops. Now, we have 4 flights a day to CVG, and all the AWAC and Eagle flights to ORD have been upgraded from turboprops to RJs.

She said that the RJs give her more room than some large airplanes in coach (where she almost always flies). Note to US airlines: The best service she's had lately has been Mexicana. I also noticed that the Mexicana coach food was > the food I had on NWA in First Class.

I recently flew on 2 RJ flights. THe Eagle flight to ORD had great service, from the counter to the cabin crew. It was an ERJ, which I would definitely not want to fly on a long leg (I prefer the CRJ).

My other RJ flight was even better. I experienced great service, and enjoyed all the space I had in First Class (which I fly in sometimes).

Cliff
DTW

 

[benjakes]

first class room in an RJ?

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

1st class was in an RJ-85 (Mesaba). AWAC also flies them-called a BAe-146. They are very nice, and seat up to 100 PAX.

Cliff
DTW

 

[:-)]

hey cliff, ya know what BAe stands for?

Bring Another engine.

Hobbes

 

[dash8driver]

ok first, all you people are way off. you act like you've only been in this industry for a week. you should all know by now that these short comings are the fault of the employees, always! the only time upper management is involved is when success is involved.

all airlines are run by superior management teams. all success are due to their superiority, and all failures are due to other people (employees). boy i wish my checkrides would be graded the same way.

 

[coolyokeluke]

Pilot vs Doctor get serious
"Flight crews are as skilled as a physician and are asked give up the moon. I don't remember anyone asking their Dr. to take a pay cut before they went into surgery".

A high school drop out can make a living flying an airplane and have a skill level equal to anyone out there driving airplanes, in fact I know one at a major. Doctors can not. Doctor's are trained in unique specialties; they have an elimination process with many obstacles to overcome to get to their profession operating level. When you need a heart transplant, or have cancer, you make sure you have best available in that field and you pay whatever he wants. Pilots on the other hand are a commodity, a company or an airline needs a COM/INST/MEL rated pilot, there are 1,000's to chose from, and the job goes to the lowest bidder. Skill above a minimum level means little to the employer. In fact the skill level above the minimum has little to do with the hiring process, personality, work ethic, etc, play more into the pilot hiring process than hours and ratings. Anyone with a certain level of skill and some desire can become a pilot. Doctors become pilots all the time, and any doctor with the desire can become a pilot. (I know, I know they kill themselves in airplanes, but that is more a personality fault, than a skill short fall) The reverse is not true very few professional pilots have the skill to become doctors. I love flying, do it as much as I can, and I enjoy flying anything with wings, and that is reason I came back to aviation. But I think sometimes pilots have a misplaced why they fly, if you are in it because you like flying, you will not be disappointed. If you are in for the money, you may be disappointed. If you want money become a doctor.

I'm suprised nobody replied to this.

I've signed off 23 8710's. And no, not everybody can be a pilot (Even doctors). Particuallarly as you move up the food chain. It's not that some of these people aren't very intelligent and accomplished in their civilian lives either. We too have many obstacles to overcome in our quest to become professionals.

And yes, some high school dropouts could have the requisite skill and intelligence to make it as a professional pilot. Why is this a suprise? Education does not necessarily equate to intelligence or ability. This being said, I had to teach a high school drop-out. Do you have any idea of how hard it is to explain something like density altitude to a person who has only the most rudimentary understandings of physical science? Just one of many many examples.

I do agree that pilots must meet minimum (high) standards and any one of them will get you safely to your destination and should be able to handle an emergency situation. And that is different from medicine where the most difficult problems are unsolvable. This is an apples and oranges comparison.

Don't you think personality and work ethic will affect the professional life of a doctor? They don't work in a vacuum.

My uncle is a doctor. My wife is a doctor. I'll agree that flight crews are not asked to be as skilled as physicians but I still think it's not a relative comparison. I think very many pilots could be physicians and you're putting the medical profession on too high of a pedestal.

We're a commodity because of a free market system, supply and demand. There's a large supply of pilots. Not because we don't have high levels of training, knowlege, years of experience, and professionalism.

And last, I made the choice to follow avaition because I, like you, had a passion for it. I considered the medical profession but I realized that I had a greater interest in the money and prestige of being a physician than the actual work. Nobody should go into a field dealing with people (or animals) just because of money, you need great compassion for your patients.

 

[405]

I'm happy my corporate executives get nice bonuses...

As long as they're happy, by God, I'm happy too. That's all that matters to me...

Don't even get me started.