A loyal Platinum Delta business pass speaks up

[benjakes]

I have been reading this board after stumbling across it. For reference sake, I live in Atlanta, have been Platinum for 10 years, and am in the 2 million mile club. I am a VP of sales for a 3.6 billion dollar company.

I also make it a point to be polite on flights, and to always thank the flight attendants, and the pilots on every flight.

I decided to comment because I think that Delta/ASA/Comair and it's pilot's have lost perspective.

I can't stand Delta anymore, but have no choice but to continue flying them in most cases. I tried stopping for 6 months last year, but it cut into my family time too much. The way they treat there customers is terrible. More on that later.

Years ago, I had no problem spending 2100 for a full fare ticket at the last minute. We use AMEX travel, who would only book on "main" airlines. Now, when I went for my ticket to LAX at the last minute this week, it was 400.00 RT. I have not spent more than 800 for a ticket in the last two years, and that is without more than a 7 day advance. I reference this because times have changed. I cannot, nor can my managers or sales rep, spend $2100 for a ticket anymore. Profit=revenue per flight-cost(overhead) per flight.

Now, my issues:

ASA/Comair- I can't stand the little planes. I don't mind coach, but in order to get 50 or 70 seats in those plains, they absolutly squish you together. If I wanted to go on a discount airline, I would have flown Jetblue, or Airtran. Also, just the marketing sucks. Delta knows service on these flights is substandard, so they try to say it is not Delta. Sorry folks, my bill says Delta, I call the same # to book, and you credit my medallion account the same miles. Improve your service/planes. Finally, can a man buy a beer if he has to sit someplace for 2 hours?

Delta- I no longer feel special or wanted when I fly with you. If I pay for 100 RT tickets a year, why do I have to pay 25.00 to change a flight, and have NO priority if there is a seat? Also, the medallion program is the worst in the industry. Hardest to achieve, the least rewards. Second, with the cutbacks and pending bankruptcy, the morale is poor, and people just aren't as freindly anymore. What happened to smiling?

I have some very fond memories of the "old morale" Pilots last flights and the water rainbows, gifts, famillies. We were made to feel part of the family.

I made it a point to be on the first planes AFTER 9-11. A pilot on a 777 to Orlando made it a point to get a customer list, with your medallion level, and thanked us by name and recognized our contribution by level. He shook each of our hands personally!

I have also noticed that service, atmoshpere, professionalism, and attitude is by far the best on 777's. I often wonder if it is because of pay (I am assuming here), experience, the plane itself, or just because the leadership of the pilots.

Airtran-I used to fly you some, but stopped after about 4 out of 6 6:20 AM flights were cancelled because of "mechanical" problems. When their are only two other passengers at the gate, I need to question the real reason. I will say, in the last 12 months I have flown them a few times and they are getting their act together. I enjoy the new planes. They still need some work to appeal to the business traveler though.

JetBlue-I have flown three times. The new Airbus has lots of room, people are freindly, seats are leather, direct TV at each seat, I can get a beer, and the people smile. I felt wanted. The best flights I have had in the last year. I do believe they set the benchmark in the industry now.

I reference this because I want to fly Delta, and be loyal to my city. I do not want you to go bankrupt. I do usually pay more to be loyal to you. The whole organization needs to change though. I challenge each of you to be a passenger on JetBlue, right now the standard of excellence (to me at least), and then ask yourself "why should people pay more to fly my airplane"?

If you struggle to answer that question, then the real problem is not pilots pay, or management. It is that the both of you are so worried about yourselves, and your competition is not.

 

[EagleRJ]

Excellent points. Over the past few years, we've seen service and amenities at the legacy carriers go downhill, while startups offer more to the customer at lower cost. As a pilot at the regional feeder of an alleged "full-service" airline, I hear it all the time. Customers buy tickets on airlines like American because it's the only way to get where they are going, or because of the loyalty incentives.

The RJ is the darling of airline management nowdays, due to efficiency and profitability, either real or imagined. There's no question that it has its place in the system, like connecting the "long, thin" routes that wouldn't be justified for mainline service. Overall, though, passengers hate them. No space, no room for carry ons, noisy, no food, no First Class, no music or movies. It's no secret that Management is trying to expand RJs onto mainline narrowbody routes as much as possible, due to lower labor costs.The RJ is therefore here to stay.

It's always been my contention that the "legacy" airlines have to set the standard on amenities, and not just rely on their widespread routes and established loyalty programs to keep customers coming. There used to be complimentary liquor, peanuts, hot food even in Coach, kiddie wings and coloring books, music, etc. It was all killed to cut costs, but the Low Cost Carriers somehow find it in their budgets to offer the goodies anyway.
Darwin's Law of Natural Selection is at work in the airline industry today, and the legacy airlines are no longer setting the standard- they are playing catch-up. The expansion and profitability has always gone to the airlines that give the customers what they want. The customers are now speaking up with their wallets, travel agencies, and company travel planners. We can ignore them at our peril.

As for the lack of cheer out there, most of it is understandable. Employees in general are doing more work with less staffing, and the layoffs are still going out. Having a competent, understanding, communicative management team would go a long way towards making difficult working conditions tolerable. Unfortunately, most of us are lacking in that department.

 

[BlueBlood]

Concerned Plat Med Flyer.....

Mr. Platinum,

I appreciate your candor and reference to a number of airlines and not just Delta. You couldn't be more correct stating morale is in the tank, service sucks, options are less than desirable, and comfort on the RJ (50-70 Seater) is lacking. Unfortunately Sir, this is a Wal-Mart industry that used to cater to those who were willing to pay for service. Now it's all about how little you can get for your buck. The airlines make you feel like you should thank them for just getting you there, regardless if you are on time. The small jets are less comfortable than a 767 or a 737, but they offer a solution to two problems. Problem one is frequency and problem two is empty seats. The customer gets more flights to choose from and the airline gets to operate an aircraft with fewer empty seats.

Service is the center of what we do, and sadly, not everyone understands that. The customer is the reason I have a job. Thank you for your business.

Morale is horrible. You buy a Delta ticket through Delta reservations and get on an airplane that says Delta, but it's not Delta; it's ASA, Comair, Chatauqua, or SKywest. Vastly different worlds between Mother Delta and their "unqualified", and underpaid counterparts at the small jet operators. Our window of opportunity has closed. I will never see the cockpit of a major airline or make the coveted $300K/annum I thought one day possible. I will have to enjoy my $35K/annum and just be thankful that I get to do what I enjoy, or at least used to. The crews of the small jets are as qualified and dedicated to their customers just as much as our "Major Airline" friends down the concourse.

Many ask, "If it's that bad, why not do something else?". The question I would ask them is, "What else is there?". Many have spent better than ten years to get somewhere and find out that the rules have changed and so has the destination. Forgive us for not having the intiative for doing something else or searching for greener pastures. The dying, yellow pasture we find ourselves in is all we know, by now, and qualified to graze in.

Flight crews are as skilled as a physician and are asked give up the moon. I don't remember anyone asking their Dr. to take a pay cut before they went into surgery. It's tough see any optimism from folks that have worked a lifetime to get where they are, only to have multi-million dollar CEOs tell them that they aren't doing enough.

Pardon me, but screw giving up the farm. Instead, raise the hell out of ticket prices and make the passenger pay for the service they get. Until then, passengers do need to be thankful that they got there, late or not, for $400.00 what did you expect, Mr. Jet-setter. You get what you pay for.

I started to apologize for your experience, but I'm tired of apologizing for being a professional and treated as if I were not. If you want it, pay for it. I've already paid for mine.

 

[ATL2CDG]

I have been reading this board after stumbling across it. For reference sake, I live in Atlanta, have been Platinum for 10 years, and am in the 2 million mile club. I am a VP of sales for a 3.6 billion dollar company. Whoopty-freakin'-do. Airlines carry thousands of passenger everyday, thousands of CEOs and VPs. Thousands of Hollywood starlets, government higher-ups and old money debutantes. I don't care what you do or how much money your company handles. Everyone on my plane is worthy of the same respect, courtesy and professionalism.

I decided to comment because I think that Delta/ASA/Comair and it's pilot's have lost perspective. A VP who doesn't know the difference between "its pilots" and the non-sensical "it's pilot's"? Yikes.

I can't stand Delta anymore, but have no choice but to continue flying them in most cases. I tried stopping for 6 months last year, but it cut into my family time too much. The way they treat there customers is terrible. More on that later. While your displeasure is duly noted and certainly understood, you also need to understand the circumstances that have created the situation in question. Furloughs, minimum staffing, pay cuts, pension under funding, overly critical management and customers and government harassment are not conductive to a productive and friendly work environment.

Years ago, I had no problem spending 2100 for a full fare ticket at the last minute. We use AMEX travel, who would only book on "main" airlines. Now, when I went for my ticket to LAX at the last minute this week, it was 400.00 RT. I have not spent more than 800 for a ticket in the last two years, and that is without more than a 7 day advance. I reference this because times have changed. I cannot, nor can my managers or sales rep, spend $2100 for a ticket anymore. Well, you said it yourself... Times have changed... If you're unwilling to pay more, then you’re going to have to expect a correlating decrease in services rendered. Simple economics.

Now, my issues:

ASA/Comair- I can't stand the little planes. Well, get used to them. Sure, Delta can fly a 737-200 with 12 passengers from Atlanta to Columbus, MS, but you're going to be a lot more than you are now. Or, just get rid of all the RJs and when you've got a total choice of 2 flights between Atlanta and Raleigh-Durham because of fleet reassignment, don't complain about not having enough choice. I don't mind coach, but in order to get 50 or 70 seats in those plains, they absolutly squish you together. Whine about the RJs all you want, but there are several facts to be noted. The seat pitch and seat size is the same as it is on mainline aircraft. On RJs, you have the benefit of not being crammed into a middle seat. If I wanted to go on a discount airline, I would have flown Jetblue, or Airtran. I'm not sure what you're trying to say with the reference about 'discount airlines': jetBlue offers more seat pitch and AirTran offers comparable sit pitch, so you can't draw a comparison with the RJs. Also, just the marketing sucks. Delta knows service on these flights is substandard, so they try to say it is not Delta. Service is substandard? You get a beverage service, are offered the sale of alcoholic beverages, have available pillows, blankets and a lavatory, travel at the same speed and altitude (general) as our mainline counterparts. What's substandard about the service? Sorry folks, my bill says Delta, I call the same # to book, and you credit my medallion account the same miles. And you can complain about the marketing, but what about when you book with Delta and end up on an Air France, AeroMexico or Northwest flight? Do you still complain? You're made well aware of the carrier involved when you book your travel; if you don't like it, then find another means. It's not being hidden from you. Improve your service/planes. Again, what's wrong with the service? What's wrong with the planes (I've addressed the seat pitch/size and middle seat issue)? Finally, can a man buy a beer if he has to sit someplace for 2 hours? And unless you've got a 30 minute flight to Charleston, you can easily purchase a beer if intoxication is really so important to you.

Delta- I no longer feel special or wanted when I fly with you. If I pay for 100 RT tickets a year, why do I have to pay 25.00 to change a flight, and have NO priority if there is a seat? Because the rules have to apply to everyone. You already admitted that you're paying less for your tickets, yet you want to be able to make changes to your reservation, thereby disrupting revenue and seat management control, but don't want to be liable for the costs? For years, legacy carriers have let elite fliers throw their status around to avoid fees, but when push came to shove, they were paying cheapo fares for the ticket and then playing havoc by making a million changes without penalty, while the once-a-year vacationer was by a ticket at the same price, making a change, and paying the fare. Not very equitable. If you want flexibility, buy the non-restricted fare. Also, the medallion program is the worst in the industry. Hardest to achieve, the least rewards. I don't know or care anything about the FF program, so I'll have to keep my mouth shut on this. Second, with the cutbacks and pending bankruptcy, the morale is poor, and people just aren't as freindly anymore. What happened to smiling? You just answered your own question. Your pension is being under funded, you might not have a job in a year's time, the company is working you to the bare minimums without proper staffing, government oversight poses the risk of taking your job and then 98% of your passengers walk up and starting treating you like a circus animal. How are we supposed to react when you get on the airplane with your cellphone to your ear pulling one of the "I'm only doing it to look important" "I just called to touch base with you" phone calls without even making eye contact with the crew? I'm NEVER rude, but if you want me to smile in your face and be all giddy, then you're going to have to acknowledge my presence, actually make eye contact with me when I take your drink order and follow the snack and drink presentation with a sincere "thank you". Respect and courtesy is a two-way street.

I have also noticed that service, atmoshpere, professionalism, and attitude is by far the best on 777's. I often wonder if it is because of pay (I am assuming here), experience, the plane itself, or just because the leadership of the pilots. Well, it's because the pilots just got paid $1,000+ bring you to Paris and they are now to start a 24+ layover. Domestic 777 pilots do one roundtrip (usually no more than 8-10 hours on duty) and get to go home the same day. Whereas on your beloved RJs, the pilots and flight attendants are in the middle of a 12 hour, 5 leg day between 12 hour rest periods and have to turn the airplane around in 35 minutes in order to be on time.

I reference this because I want to fly Delta, and be loyal to my city. I do not want you to go bankrupt. I do usually pay more to be loyal to you. The whole organization needs to change though. I challenge each of you to be a passenger on JetBlue, right now the standard of excellence (to me at least), and then ask yourself "why should people pay more to fly my airplane"? Because you're not going to get to Fort Wayne, IN, Albany, GA or Alexandria, LA on jetBlue. If you want to travel to medium or small city, then you're going to have to pay more. It's not feasible to expect United, Delta or any other legacy carrier to have a worldwide network employing thousands of senior veterans in the various departments and not have to charge more. As jetBlue and AirTran age and grow, their costs will increase. Enjoy the honeymoon with 'em now, because it won't last.

If you struggle to answer that question, then the real problem is not pilots pay, or management. It is that the both of you are so worried about yourselves, and your competition is not. Well, considering that you haven't mentioned pilot pay in your entire rant until this point, I think it's a last minute argument to provoke a response. Delta pilots are doing well; they're the best paid in the industry. But I can assure you that there 'brethren' at ASA and CMR are not as 'affluent'; first year pilots at ASA qualify for food stamps. So, please, don't think that the issue it pilot pay or pilot ego. It's the nature of the beast. These large legacy carriers have 50,000+ employees, operate hundreds of stations (and subsequently leases, service contracts, etc.), employ the best mechanics, and serve cities where, without government aid or price inflation, they wouldn't turn a profit. I know it's easy for you to point at the pilots from your cushy first class seat and say, "J'accuse!", but until you educate yourself on all the facts at hand, you don't know what you're talking about.

 

[benjakes]

Blueblood,

First, I am sorry. I think you missed my points.

1-We cannot go back.
2-Some very profitable airlines give much more service/comfort/appreciation than legacy airlines do, for less money. Remember, I am paying the higher fares in a lot of cases.
3-No matter what industry you are in, if you are not customer focused, you will lose sooner than later.
4-No profit, no money to worry about.


I think it is sad that the rate for pilots is diminishing. For refrence sake though, an average family practice doctor makes about 60% of what they did 10 years ago, and it is barely above 100k.

Last point I ponder. If a mainline pilot was starting out today instead of 20 years ago, would they still look down on RJ pilots? You do what you can when you are young to open doors. Once you are in the door, you try to improve the situation. If an RJ could go to a mainline and make more, most would. Sometimes, you have to make decisions based on feeding your family.

 

[benjakes]

ATL2CDG-

You are right, my grammer can always use improvement. The nun's/jesuit's did all they could....

In the beggining, I wasn't bragging. I was trying to give perspective. I am a regular person, who flies everyweek.

I was implying that I respect the profesionals who fly my plane. I do say high, make eye contact, and most times ask something along the lines of "going home, hopefully?" or "last leg of the day?".

I never walk on the plane using my cell phone, or at a check-in counter. I have manners, that I am trying my best to pass on to my children. I am also as annoyed by impolite people as you are.

Two of my best friends are pilots. One for Delta mainline, one for ASA. They hate each other.

RE:25.00 change fee. All I am suggesting is that a customer that generates 30,000 in revenue a year be allowed to switch flight before you give the seat to someone who give you 400 a year. I will pay the 25.00 gladly (it's expensed). The work is the same either way.

Finally, I am sorry about all you have suffered through. I am sure their is more suffering to come. It is not, industry wide.

 

[Publishers]

Once

Once again, we tell the customer how screwed up their thinking is and wonder why we lose them.

 

[EagleRJ]

RE:25.00 change fee. All I am suggesting is that a customer that generates 30,000 in revenue a year be allowed to switch flight before you give the seat to someone who give you 400 a year. I will pay the 25.00 gladly (it's expensed). The work is the same either way.

I agree that charging you $25 to switch is a foolish business decision, but like many things, it's completely out of the employees' control.

Every day, I see idiotic actions by the airline that inconvenience the passengers. One example is tankering fuel to save $200 by not buying fuel at the outstation, and then deciding which five passengers to bump off for a $200 voucher each, since now we're too heavy to carry them.

In most cases, we can't take the initiative to fix problems like that. It's not our decision to make- we "just fly the plane". Your concerns would carry more weight if you wrote letters to the airlines' customer service departments directly.

 

[:-)]

Ben, I agree with the tone of your post. But I have to ask, have you written to DAL HQ and expressed the same feelings? Management is responsible for EVERYTHING, every area that you address. What you see is the result of managements failure to provide leadership, vision, encouragement and the proper perspective for its human assets.

Yes, we peons should try and be happy, (see my signature line) if only for our own mental health; but I could be as happy as the proverbial clown and your experience at DAL would still suck. It is not I that determines the aircraft you fly, nor the $25 change fee you dislike.

Post a copy of the letter you sent/send to HQ, along with the official response and then let's talk.

cheers,

 

[benjakes]

For what's it's worth, a year or so ago, when I thought Delta cared, I wrote a long letter to Leo and copied Duane (thinking that he would thank me as it was a clear example on how Delta doesn't care and is mismanaged). My neighbor suggested copying Duane, saying the union was looking for examples such as this.

Recieved xeroxed form letter from Delta, stating they are sorry, nothing ever from Union.

To me, it is sad. Everyone is going to lose if things don't change, but no one has the balls to stand up and fix things.

Maybe all I am trying to do is to make everyone realize that the emperors (labor and management) have no clothes.....