A few questions for the Jet Blue pilots on this forum

[MercuryPilot]

blah, blah, blah...JetBlue's dragging down the industry...blah, blah, blah...it's all JetBlue's fault...blah, blah, blah

sounds like a broken record

Wasn't this exact thread on here last month? And the month before? And the month before that?...

 

[Smoking Man]

Sounds the same to me, I wonder if I donated to the RJDC if that in combination with me going to the 190 will add to the topic!

Does the RJDC take pay pal?


See you in 11+ years, at jetBlue

 

[Skygod]

Your union can't get you pay rates better than ours . . . but you want us to get a union. Good sales pitch! Where do I sign up?

 

[mrtoy2]

In my previous life (at a certain LCC carrier in bankrupcy), we were asked the "...jetBlue flys for $51/hr (airbus first year pay) and we need to get to their cost structure so will have to do the same". I was upset at this as well. The problem is that management, and some on this board, don't look at the ways jetBlue pilots are compensated. They only see: $51/hr and a 70hr guar. and stop right there. I did the same at the time. If you do a little more research than that though B6 pays at 150% anything over 70 hours. Average schedules are around 83 hours. You do the math. If you still don't like it, you don't have to apply.

 

[Blue Dude]

I don't care about five years from now, your EMB payrates are exerting a downward pressure on the industry right now.

etc. etc.

None of this has anything to do with the statement I responded to, which was:

Eventually, someone is going to end up stuck as an FO on those horrible payrates because the wild growth will slow down or stop and an upgrade will be nowhere in sight.

I thought I gave you a very succinct answer as to why things are the way they are, and you ignored it completely by bringing up something else. But I'll answer anyway.

Our equipment rollout schedule, cost structure, and projected operating costs don't take your particular bargaining situation into account, so your problems are frankly irrelevent to when and how much our pay rates will rise.

There is no union at JetBlue because most pilots know the score and can judge for themselves whether or not there is a need for one (i.e. if or how badly they're being screwed). As far as how that affects you, I'll be blunt. It's just too bad. My paychecks don't have your name on them, and if we raised the mythical bar just to make you happy with us, it would greatly harm the rollout process of an airplane that would probably be operated by a regional airline in any other airline system. Scope is a critical enough issue that, in my opinion, it's worth the initial pay hit to keep it in house.

Ultimately, if you're stupid enough to buy the line that you have to take the same pay we have, even though your business model is completely different, then there's no hope for you anyway. Your pattern bargaining needs are strictly speaking, not our problem. Does that make us selfish? You bet it does. But then, that's exactly what we all do. We take into account the specific situation at our specific properties and act accordingly. Nobody - nobody - writes their contracts with "the good of the industry" in mind, only the good of their own company's pilots. That's the hard truth.

You can afford to be altruistic when you bitch about someone else's pay rates affecting your own negotiations, but if the situation were reversed, you wouldn't walk that talk, you'd merely act in your own best interests. In our case, the pay rates are disappointingly low, but there's a reason for it. If in a few years, nothing has changed, then you'll see a lot more pushing back on our part. But for now, two months into the deployment, we're all taking a wait and see attitude on how it's going to work out. That timing sucks for you, but it works for us. Sorry.

 

[MercuryPilot]

Thanks, Blue Dude. Very well said.
MP

 

[PCL_128]

Your pattern bargaining needs are strictly speaking, not our problem.

And the needs of your pilots to jumpseat to JFK are strictly speaking, not my problem either. Are you starting to see why some of the NWA guys are giving your pilots such a hard time on the jumpseat? This "screw you, we've got ours" attitude of the JBlue pilots is getting old. I have yet to deny a JBlue jumpseater, and I probably won't in the future either, but I do understand where the few NWA pilots that have are coming from. Your attitude is hard to take when the rest of us are struggling just to hold onto the flying we already have.

 

[Blue Dude]

Oh, bullsh*t. Name a single bargaining unit that has kept the needs of the industry above their own. There isn't one. This isn't a "screw you, we've got ours" attitude any more than any other pilot group. There is no duty, requirement, or even courteous expectation, that we should harm our business to make your bargaining easier. No pilot group has ever done so, and we won't be the first. That's all there is to it.

You are again attempting to shift focus to yet another area that wasn't even addressed in your previous comments. Try to stay on topic, hm?


I am quite amused at this line:

Your attitude is hard to take when the rest of us are struggling just to hold onto the flying we already have.

Isn't that what's been accomplished here? Holding onto ALL of our flying? Not contracting it out to the lowest bidder, whoever that might be at the moment? You should be rejoicing that you have a successful precedent for keeping all of the flying in house.

 

[PCL_128]

There is no duty, requirement, or even courteous expectation, that we should harm our business to make your bargaining easier.

Of course, and I haven't suggested that you do so. There is no danger of your business suffering any "harm" here. You work for a profitable company, and as such, the company has the ability to pay you a fair wage that doesn't undercut the rest of the industry and force us into tough bargaining positions. If your company was on the brink of financial ruin then I certainly wouldn't expect you to demand higher rates on the EMB flying, but with steady profits for years Jetblue can certainly pay you the going rate for 100-seat flying without any risk to profitability.

Isn't that what's been accomplished here? Holding onto ALL of our flying? Not contracting it out to the lowest bidder, whoever that might be at the moment? You should be rejoicing that you have a successful precedent for keeping all of the flying in house.

There isn't any succesful precedent here at all. All you've done is give management at other companies the ammo to say "If you want to keep the flying, then you'll have to do it for JetBlue rates. The JetBlue pilots don't seem to mind it. In fact, they defend it!" Besides, you haven't even managed to really secure the flying at your own airline. Without a union and a CBA with scope, JetBlue can send those airplanes to another bidder anytime they want if you guys start complaining about the rates and mentioning a union. They have just managed to hold something else over your head to keep the union talk at bay. Again, no matter how much you polish that turd, it's still a turd.

 

[BeCareful!]

US Airways will own JB before 2010.....mark my words.