A breach of ethics at PinnaColaba?

[Flyer1015]

1. Who appointed FS, a Mesaba employee, to handle vacancy awards? Why him? Why not a Colgan guy? Or why not a Pinnacle guy?

2. Did the Mesaba merger committee OR the Mesaba MEC provided any input to Frank in terms of their interpretation of the ISL conditions/restrictions for this vacancy award? IF this can be proven, it constitutes a breach of ethics, or at the very least, a breach of common sense integrity. Our 3 airlines should have consulted with Bloch first, clarified the conditions/restrictions, and then carried forward. This award not only displaced our Captains back to FOs, but also prevented any 9E Captains from being awarded a Saab position. I cannot see this exact wording on the C&R, which only leads me to think that the Mesaba committee has provided their own interpretation to Frank and that is what has happened.

Is the above true? If it is, then that is very, very disturbing!

 

[RJLoser]

I believe the real breach occurred in PCL's rear end.

 

[Northern Lights]

Colgan Saabs are fenced, so you won't be going there as a captain.

 

[RJLoser]

Colgan Saabs are fenced, so you won't be going there as a captain.

PCL does not believe this to be true. It will be challenged. PCL's MEC has attorneys working hard on th... Bwaaaahahaha. Disregard.

 

[xjhawk]

1. Who appointed FS, a Mesaba employee, to handle vacancy awards? Why him? Why not a Colgan guy? Or why not a Pinnacle guy?

2. Did the Mesaba merger committee OR the Mesaba MEC provided any input to Frank in terms of their interpretation of the ISL conditions/restrictions for this vacancy award? IF this can be proven, it constitutes a breach of ethics, or at the very least, a breach of common sense integrity. Our 3 airlines should have consulted with Bloch first, clarified the conditions/restrictions, and then carried forward. This award not only displaced our Captains back to FOs, but also prevented any 9E Captains from being awarded a Saab position. I cannot see this exact wording on the C&R, which only leads me to think that the Mesaba committee has provided their own interpretation to Frank and that is what has happened.

Is the above true? If it is, then that is very, very disturbing!

There are words for you....bitter dweeb-idiot-lack of any knowledge on who you are talking about.....

Why dont you just leave and start over somewhere else. I am willing to bet there are plenty of Mesaba pilots who were screwed a lot worse than you were. Oh and by the way, Frank would not play favorites-nor would anyone else in Planning-their jobs would be at stake if they "played favorites" as they answer to MEM corporate-that should be enough to know that what you say is not true. If you doubt Frank-guess what? Call him and tell him who you are and get to know him. If there is a mistake, he will appologize and fix the mistake. I know guys who have done that.

Stop being an idiot and stop blaming those in planning who are dealing with this crap sandwich that our union and Bloch gave them. I am sure they love dealing with the fences.

Oh by the way......Mesaba is at our cap for jet numbers-so all the spots created for the guys leaving the saab will be VACANCIES filled by those senior Q pilots....and their slots will be filled by colgan pilots.....

 

[Flyer1015]

Colgan Saabs are fenced, so you won't be going there as a captain.

That's not what I interpret when I read the C&R.

I am willing to bet there are plenty of Mesaba pilots who were screwed a lot worse than you were.

Name one. All Mesaba Saab Captains are senior to a Pinnacle pilot hired in March 2007, and they are JFK CA. Worse case scenario for Mesaba Captains is to bid JFK CA, using their displacement rights, and forcing our JFK CAs back to the right seat. As has already happened...

so what are you complaining about, again?

 

[bri5150]

To answer your first question, it sure as heck aren't the Mesaba pilots and/or union that pick who does the vacancy awards. If it were the Pinnacle guy, then the question would be why not the Mesaba or Colgan guy? I am guessing he is doing them because someone higher than him thought he was the best out of the 3 to get things done. That's how businesses work you know. They are not a democracy, although politics can play a part of it.

 

[higney85]

Frank has already been given the Corporate title of "Manager of Crew Resources" but doesn't officially start that position until the certificates start moving. Until then he still works at XJ. He did this realignment wearing his "Corp" hat. The only input from 9E planning and CJC planning is how many pilots they need, and where. What has happened since is strictly an issue of the Bloch interpretation, the JCBA, and each pilot's system bid preference.

 

[bri5150]

As for your second question. Here is the language from the award:​

6. For a period of five years beginning with submission of the
integrated seniority list, no pre-merger Pinnacle or Mesaba
pilots may be awarded or displaced to a Q-400 captain
unless Colgan pilots maintain 193 Q-400 captain positions.​

7. For a period of five years beginning with the submission of
the Integrated Seniority List, no Pinnacle pilot may be
awarded or displaced to a Saab-340 captain position, and no
pre-merger Colgan pilot may be awarded or displaced to a​

Saab-340 captain position unless Mesaba pilots maintain 129 Saab-340 captains.

Do you see the difference in the wording between these two fences? If Pinnacle were allowed to bid to the Saab, it would have been worded like number 6, but it is not. Pinnacle has it's own fragment of a sentence. If Bloch intended for what you are saying he did, it would read:

7. For a period of five years beginning with submission of the
integrated seniority list, no pre-merger Pinnacle or Mesaba
pilots may be awarded or displaced to a SF-340 captain
unless Colgan pilots maintain 193 SF-240 captain positions.​

Note, the number 7 directly above is NOT language in the award. I DO think he could have worded it better, I'll give you that.​

 

[WMUSIGPI]

That's not what I interpret when I read the C&R.



Name one. All Mesaba Saab Captains are senior to a Pinnacle pilot hired in March 2007, and they are JFK CA. Worse case scenario for Mesaba Captains is to bid JFK CA, using their displacement rights, and forcing our JFK CAs back to the right seat. As has already happened...

so what are you complaining about, again?

And guess what, every one of the Saab captains were hired BEFORE 3/07. Most many YEARS before then. Do you think you are the only ones losing your seat? I'm being forced out of mine as well. Many of us are, welcome to the club.

 

[Flyprdu]

And guess what, every one of the Saab captains were hired BEFORE 3/07.

Not true. Check your facts.

 

[Flyer1015]

And guess what, every one of the Saab captains were hired BEFORE 3/07. Most many YEARS before then. Do you think you are the only ones losing your seat? I'm being forced out of mine as well. Many of us are, welcome to the club.

Not true dude, are you crazy? One of my great friends, actually a CFI who taught me much for my instrument rating, is a LGA SF3 Captain at Mesaba. A majority of your LGA SF3 Captains were hired April-July 2007.

As for your second question. Here is the language from the award:​

6. For a period of five years beginning with submission of the
integrated seniority list, no pre-merger Pinnacle or Mesaba
pilots may be awarded or displaced to a Q-400 captain
unless Colgan pilots maintain 193 Q-400 captain positions.​

7. For a period of five years beginning with the submission of
the Integrated Seniority List, no Pinnacle pilot may be
awarded or displaced to a Saab-340 captain position, and no
pre-merger Colgan pilot may be awarded or displaced to a​

Saab-340 captain position unless Mesaba pilots maintain 129 Saab-340 captains.

Do you see the difference in the wording between these two fences? If Pinnacle were allowed to bid to the Saab, it would have been worded like number 6, but it is not. Pinnacle has it's own fragment of a sentence. If Bloch intended for what you are saying he did, it would read:

7. For a period of five years beginning with submission of the
integrated seniority list, no pre-merger Pinnacle or Mesaba
pilots may be awarded or displaced to a SF-340 captain
unless Colgan pilots maintain 193 SF-240 captain positions.​

Note, the number 7 directly above is NOT language in the award. I DO think he could have worded it better, I'll give you that.

You're splitting hairs here. The above shouldn't keep ALL Pinnacle Captains off the Saabs, I just think the wording should have been more clear as to his intent. No matter, the 9E side of things will be getting a clarification from Bloch very soon, and then we will see what he truly meant.
​

 

[bri5150]

Not true dude, are you crazy? One of my great friends, actually a CFI who taught me much for my instrument rating, is a LGA SF3 Captain at Mesaba. A majority of your LGA SF3 Captains were hired April-July 2007.

You're splitting hairs here. The above shouldn't keep ALL Pinnacle Captains off the Saabs, I just think the wording should have been more clear as to his intent. No matter, the 9E side of things will be getting a clarification from Bloch very soon, and then we will see what he truly meant.​

You are right. I am splitting hairs. And that's what lawyers do. Split hairs to figure out intent. You are right again. He should have worded it better, especially considering how long it took him to write it.

 

[Flyer1015]

You are right. I am splitting hairs. And that's what lawyers do. Split hairs to figure out intent. You are right again. He should have worded it better, especially considering how long it took him to write it.

Lawyers are scum, profitting directly at the expense of someone else's downfall.

 

[bri5150]

Lawyers are scum, profitting directly at the expense of someone else's downfall.

 

[WMUSIGPI]

Not true dude, are you crazy? One of my great friends, actually a CFI who taught me much for my instrument rating, is a LGA SF3 Captain at Mesaba. A majority of your LGA SF3 Captains were hired April-July 2007.

You're splitting hairs here. The above shouldn't keep ALL Pinnacle Captains off the Saabs, I just think the wording should have been more clear as to his intent. No matter, the 9E side of things will be getting a clarification from Bloch very soon, and then we will see what he truly meant.​

Sorry, you are correct, LGA is kinda the forgotten land. I hadn't really looked at what was/is happening out there. However in the land of traditional Mesaba bases, I am correct, other than the bottom 2 MSP captains listed as April 07 hires (both actually were hired years before that as ground instructors but couldn't be put on the list because of the bankruptcy/furloughs) the most junior SF3 captain is from the summer of 05. Even in LGA it only goes to mid 07. Captain seats at Mesaba other than a brief period in 07 have not come quickly over the past 10+ years.

 

[Flyer1015]

Captain seats at Mesaba other than a brief period in 07 have not come quickly over the past 10+ years.

I distinctly remember Mesaba hiring entry level (street) Captains on the Saab just a few years ago. And now the upgrades will come quick for Mesaba pilots, thanks to Bloch.

 

[bri5150]

I distinctly remember Mesaba hiring entry level (street) Captains on the Saab just a few years ago. And now the upgrades will come quick for Mesaba pilots, thanks to Bloch.

And those street captains downgraded quite a while ago.

 

[WMUSIGPI]

I distinctly remember Mesaba hiring entry level (street) Captains on the Saab just a few years ago. And now the upgrades will come quick for Mesaba pilots, thanks to Bloch.

Yes that street captain time was briefly a few classes in 07 because many fo's didn't want to upgrade for whatever their personal reasons were and we don't have an up or out policy.
And I don't know what FO's you think are upgrading so quickly here. There are (and will be more) plenty of downgraded captains that will have a chance first.

 

[DoinTime]

As for your second question. Here is the language from the award:​

6. For a period of five years beginning with submission of the
integrated seniority list, no pre-merger Pinnacle or Mesaba
pilots may be awarded or displaced to a Q-400 captain
unless Colgan pilots maintain 193 Q-400 captain positions.​

7. For a period of five years beginning with the submission of
the Integrated Seniority List, no Pinnacle pilot may be
awarded or displaced to a Saab-340 captain position, and no
pre-merger Colgan pilot may be awarded or displaced to a​

Saab-340 captain position unless Mesaba pilots maintain 129 Saab-340 captains.

Do you see the difference in the wording between these two fences? If Pinnacle were allowed to bid to the Saab, it would have been worded like number 6, but it is not. Pinnacle has it's own fragment of a sentence. If Bloch intended for what you are saying he did, it would read:

Truth is that it could be read either way. He doesn't have to write it like he does in other parts of the award for it carry the same meaning. There would have to be a reason why Bloch would bar PCL pilots from the saab and clearly there isn't one.

I've heard this issue will be the first to be going back to Bloch to decide what it means so get ready for more heartache over the "Metzger Quotas". That little parting gift from a soon to be flow up will haunt us here at 9E/9L for the next five years.