A breach of ethics at PinnaColaba?

[xjhawk]

okay-i need to stop ranting. But I have been through this before at mesaba. It only gets worse before it gets even worse ( I am not sure but I am thinking that saying was suppose to end differently). With my luck I am going to race out of Mesaba only to have Delta give them the 100 seaters that they are trying to get regionals to fly (note to self-beg all Delta pilots to vote no to giving up scope)

 

[altimaklr]

None of this will matter next year when the company files for bankruptcy!

 

[MACH-TUCK]

You know here is the real deal people-I think i was wronged in the SLI-I understand that many 9E FO's on there think they were in some sort of high opportunity awesome place with a bright future at 9E for them but you need to open your eyes. I am not sure about the Colgan pilots who were handed everything on a golden platter but our mesaba senior guys-most know they were given a present and are thankful but sorry that guys in my position were screwed-bottom line-there is nothing we can do about it-other than change your own circumstances. I am not hating all pinnacle pilots for pushing a NON-DOH solution to the SLI which would have prevented this crap for both 9E fo's and mesaba jr captains. I do not hate senior xj'ers or all colgan pilots-yes I am bitter but am getting over it. we all know on this board who needs to get over it-and stop blaming mesaba. Do something about it-leave this place. Its the best thing for those of us who were screwed to do. Know that in 5 years when we have lost a huge amount of crj 200's that you may rethink just how great of a position your entitled 9E pilot group brought to the table. Delta handed Mesaba and its 900's on a golden platter to Pinnacle and dont think for a second that if they could have they would have just sent the planes-but our union did a good enough job in the past that they built protections in our contract. So they were OUR 900's-and to end this-I will say I was screwed out of my future and my ability to hold MSP 900 captain through loss of seniority to Pinnacle and Colgan pilots

Do you ever think about how many pilots were screwed when Pinnacle lost those15 planes to Mesaba? Do you remember why we lost those planes to Mesaba? Let me remind you, we lost those planes because we wouldn't sign a piece of sh!t contract...Many 9e pilots, especially in MSP have been bent over a barrel more than once, many were displaced, downgraded, etc...Do I personally blame XJ pilots? Absolutely Not!! I'm just sick of reading your post constantly bit#%ing and moaning about how you got hosed on the SLI and now your never going to be able to be a 900 CA in MSP. Get over it!!! Your not the only one that's been screwed in this business!

 

[jynxyjericho]

Do you ever think about how many pilots were screwed when Pinnacle lost those15 planes to Mesaba? Do you remember why we lost those planes to Mesaba? Let me remind you, we lost those planes because we wouldn't sign a piece of sh!t contract...Many 9e pilots, especially in MSP have been bent over a barrel more than once, many were displaced, downgraded, etc...Do I personally blame XJ pilots? Absolutely Not!! I'm just sick of reading your post constantly bit#%ing and moaning about how you got hosed on the SLI and now your never going to be able to be a 900 CA in MSP. Get over it!!! Your not the only one that's been screwed in this business!

Are you talking about the 15 Freedom birds that were going to Comair that eventually went to ASA and Mesaba after they skipped right over Pinnacle?

 

[CptMurf]

Are you talking about the 15 Freedom birds that were going to Comair that eventually went to ASA and Mesaba after they skipped right over Pinnacle?

Uhh no. A little farther back. After NWA awarded XJ with 15 200s (only 2 were delivered), a nice long ASA (which was soon routed), and guarantees for the next CRJ options exercised, NWA soon went into BK. In their (NWA) wisdom, 9E remained to get paid while XJ was not. This forced XJ into BK. During this time frame, 9E missed a deadline (for a pilot contract) that allowed NWA to remove aircraft under their ASA. NWA exercised this provision, and 15 200s were transferred from 9E to XJ. This took XJ to 16 200s, because Compass ended up flying 1 of the 2 delivered 200s for awhile, it was eventually returned, taking XJ to 17 200s. Later, two 200s were transferred from Comair, which took us to the 19 we know now.

With the above, mixed with 5 Avros being pulled/replaced 2 times before finally being pulled, and CWA, CVG, RHI base closures, XJ has had many ups and downs. This has weathered our MEC, and made them a more effective and prepared group of people, which was evident in the JCBA/SLI negotiations and resultant contract/ISL. It has also calloused the senior pilot group to dismiss the effects of aircraft loss/movement, long reserve times and downgrades, we've all seen them ourselves. 9E pilots, up until now, have NEVER dealt with these types of issues. This is what has started these heated debates on who has been screwed in this integration. XJ placed provisions in our old contract which protected positions in seniority order based on experience, now these provisions (which made it into the JCBA) are in question by those that have never needed them...until now.

This ride is not over, but we need to come together to help this company and ourselves to move through this. Pointing fingers, and blaming is only going to make it harder to bear, it is not going to stop it from happening. We will all have pre merger guy flying others aircraft in a few weeks, chose how your going to deal with it, but you WILL have to deal with it regardless.

 

[WTF-Over]

Well said captmurf.

 

[sinkrate]

NWA very effectively 'whipsawed' PCL and Mesasba many times starting right after the purchase of Republic. Both airlines have been bought and sold by NW, several times in Mesabas case. It started with the DTW domicile (went to Mesaba), continued with the AVRO's and the big SF3 order (both went to Mesaba), the CR200 fleet (went to PCL), the 15 200's and the CR900 fleet (went to Mesaba). This resulted in Mesaba's horrible contract of the late 90's and PCL's '99 agreement.

From the record it is clear the senior pilots at PCL said 'NO' a lot more than they are given credit for. They said no to a cheap deal that would have resulted in the AVRO's being split between the two carriers. They said 'NO' to the contract NW threw at them in 99. NW threatend to liquidate PCL and the pilot group walked away from the table. They said 'NO' to the 15 200's in 2007. They were going to go to Mesaba no matter what PCL did. And everyone at PCL - including management - knew it. They were nothing but bait to PCL. They said no to concessions to bid for the 900's Mesaba has now. Again - they were nothing but bait.

Now we have one list and that 'whipsaw' will come to an end. The bad news is now Delta owns NW and they have an even larger stable of players to use in a 'whipsaw'. They recently expanded that stable despite their public pronouncements that they have too many regional partners. They took AC away from ASA and SkyWest and gave them to a new partner - GO Jets. Let me think - ASA is in contract negotiations and GO Jets just signed a cheap deal.

Get used to saying 'NO' - and taking your lumps for it.

 

[xjhawk]

Just wait for the senior delta pilots to give up the 100 seat flying for a huge (temporary) pay increase-long enough for them to retire. I hope it does not happen-but its pretty quiet over there.....why is Delta waiting on announcing their next 100 AC order-which is suppose to be the DC9 replacement? Oh thats right, they are in negotiations with their pilots....

 

[jynxyjericho]

Well said captmurf.

As always.

 

[xjhawk]

Do you ever think about how many pilots were screwed when Pinnacle lost those15 planes to Mesaba? Do you remember why we lost those planes to Mesaba? Let me remind you, we lost those planes because we wouldn't sign a piece of sh!t contract...Many 9e pilots, especially in MSP have been bent over a barrel more than once, many were displaced, downgraded, etc...Do I personally blame XJ pilots? Absolutely Not!! I'm just sick of reading your post constantly bit#%ing and moaning about how you got hosed on the SLI and now your never going to be able to be a 900 CA in MSP. Get over it!!! Your not the only one that's been screwed in this business!

Yes I know, my ranting lately has been in response to some of your pilots putting the blame on Mesaba-but I agree, the complaining needs to stop and as someone else on here we need to come together as a pilot group. I fully understand that many at 9E did not fair well (and got screwed), same can be said about a lot of MEsaba pilots (maybe a few Colgan guys too-very small amount). This is a grieving process and I think I am starting to cope with my situation and come up with solutions. One thing is for certain-if you stay at Pinnacle, you had better hope this new CEO is a awesome businessman and leader.