787s for Delta? Huh? Rumor alert....

[LandGreen]

After growing weary of the ilk on FI, I took a "vacation"'t for a while and haven't participated in any of the BS tha't been flying here. However; this post is right on and accurately reflects the feelings of all of my friends at various airlines (except for some, but not all at DAL). From where I sit NWA pilots are under the bus and watching as the bus prepares to throw it in reverse! I could go on, but, I'll leave it at that.

Sounds like you weren't the only one taking a vacation during a relatively "important" sequence of events! I hope the NWA MEC is well-rested now, and ready to accomplish something for its membership.

 

[NuGuy]

Ira funny that nobody has any real information of substance about what has really transpired, yet everybody has already taken their "straw polls" and formed their opinion to string up the Delta pilots by the short hairs over something that they know next to nothing about. Then they start to quote history and bring up Eastern, and Pan Am, and Republic, and Orient.

All have crucified Moak, and portrayed NWA as the victims. Yet what HAS come out, and the sniff test, tell a very different story.
.

Sorry Puff,

But the DAL guys at the ALPA national board are just the same guys here, only with their real names. They stick to their same old "talking points" that they spew here.

You are right about one thing...the sniff check. Sure, all of the senior guys on the NWA MEC, the NC and the MC, who in the past have NEVER failed to look out for themselves and the other senior pilots, simply walked away from a pile of cash, raises, "better" work rules and all they had to do is sign a "fair" SLI.

Puhleese. Record yourself saying that and play it back, JUST so you can hear yourself saying that.

The truth of the matter is the final DAL position, NOT the final NWA position, would have had 10-15 year NWA pilots losing THOUSANDS of numbers in seniority, with 15-20 percent changes in relative position AND would have stapled over 800 NWA pilots to the bottom.

THIS is the reason the DAL guys wanted so desperately to avoid arbitration. They would have been laughed right out of the office.

Let me ask you...do you consider this fair? Would YOU have signed this agreement?

But go ahead, try your little "delay game"...see how well it works. In the meantime, all of ALPA is watching, thinking "man, someone could do the same to us". If I were Prater, I'd be worried about other card drives, not to mention my job.

Nu

 

[Superpilot92]

deleted

 

[NYRANGERS]

Sorry Puff,


The truth of the matter is the final DAL position, NOT the final NWA position, would have had 10-15 year NWA pilots losing THOUSANDS of numbers in seniority, with 15-20 percent changes in relative position AND would have stapled over 800 NWA pilots to the bottom.

THIS is the reason the DAL guys wanted so desperately to avoid arbitration. They would have been laughed right out of the office.

Let me ask you...do you consider this fair? Would YOU have signed this agreement?

But go ahead, try your little "delay game"...see how well it works. In the meantime, all of ALPA is watching, thinking "man, someone could do the same to us". If I were Prater, I'd be worried about other card drives, not to mention my job.

Nu

Yea, that sounds about right. Considering what you guys bring to the table (contract wise), I imagine this is what arbitration will look like for you guys. We should try to come to an agreement with regards to SLI...as soon as possible, so that in Jan.09 both NWA and DAL can get an equity stake in the company. If we can't do that..I say we go to arbitration soon. My guess is the senior NWA guys do alright, but the junior NWA guys will not like what happens. I hope we can work out the best deal possible for all. Obviously many will not like it, but it would be good for our new company and contract. Otherwise if we are going to hate eachother anyway...why not start now. As a Delta pilot, if arbitration is on the way, I like our chances....just look at what we each bring to the table (contract wise) and see who gains, and who doesn't. Then look at the arbitration that took place at US Air.

 

[Cobra17]

It's nice for one MEC to tell another what is a good deal and in their best interest....I thought that was management's job.

Hypothetically, let's swap DAL with NWA in regards to all the events leading up to and including the current state of negotiations. If you were now in NWA's shoes, does this deal still look like it's in your best interest.

Anyways, who established a 2 week timeline? Management?

 

[PuffDriver]

Sorry Puff,

But the DAL guys at the ALPA national board are just the same guys here, only with their real names. They stick to their same old "talking points" that they spew here.

You are right about one thing...the sniff check. Sure, all of the senior guys on the NWA MEC, the NC and the MC, who in the past have NEVER failed to look out for themselves and the other senior pilots, simply walked away from a pile of cash, raises, "better" work rules and all they had to do is sign a "fair" SLI.

Puhleese. Record yourself saying that and play it back, JUST so you can hear yourself saying that.

The truth of the matter is the final DAL position, NOT the final NWA position, would have had 10-15 year NWA pilots losing THOUSANDS of numbers in seniority, with 15-20 percent changes in relative position AND would have stapled over 800 NWA pilots to the bottom.

THIS is the reason the DAL guys wanted so desperately to avoid arbitration. They would have been laughed right out of the office.

Let me ask you...do you consider this fair? Would YOU have signed this agreement?

But go ahead, try your little "delay game"...see how well it works. In the meantime, all of ALPA is watching, thinking "man, someone could do the same to us". If I were Prater, I'd be worried about other card drives, not to mention my job.

Nu

More "average line pilot" stupidity.

In a nutshell:

the nwa position was unreasonable

the delta position was not

the delta mec is opposed to arbitration

the nwa mec should be opposed to arbitration

if arbitration is indeed in the cards, it will be forced via merger policy

the integration date will be somewhere in the vicinity of 1-2 years

the landscape of both companies will be very different by then

time is not on the nwa side, they know it, hence the reason for the expedited arbitration request, if that is not trying to use your leverage to screw your union brother I don't know what is


thems the facts, I would suggest getting your guys to the table with some opened minds, otherwise the future looks bleak, you are going to take a hit in seniority, so am I. Some will take more than others. Quite honestly, I think that relative position is fair, and I think that DOH is fair. It's a shame that ALPA policy is that we have to fight it out rather than have it already decided in B&W.

I have heard the -400 displacement bid is out. True?

 

[qxdash8]

Does anyone know why the NWA MEC didn't negotiate their own LOA with NW mgmt? Dalpa saw the writing on the wall - the merger was going to happen with or without the pilots. So, after talks broke down with the NW pilots (for whatever reason) Dalpa made its own deal to protect its own pilots - isn't that what a union is supposed to do?

 

[FmrFreightDog]

I have heard the -400 displacement bid is out. True?

Untrue.

 

[Superpilot92]

Does anyone know why the NWA MEC didn't negotiate their own LOA with NW mgmt? Dalpa saw the writing on the wall - the merger was going to happen with or without the pilots. So, after talks broke down with the NW pilots (for whatever reason) Dalpa made its own deal to protect its own pilots - isn't that what a union is supposed to do?

Which mgmt team should we have negotiated with? Why would we do that as apposed to working with our fellow alpa members? Both MECs had a negotiated contract but hadnt agreed upon the sli. Why did DALALPA go to mgmt and leave the NWA pilots out of it only to agree to less than the original amount? They could have done that and made it contingent upon the agreement of the SLI if it was in the best interest of both pilot groups. The way this took place did nothing but divide the pilot groups and hopefully it hasnt divided us to much.

 

[Cobra17]

Does anyone know why the NWA MEC didn't negotiate their own LOA with NW mgmt? Dalpa saw the writing on the wall - the merger was going to happen with or without the pilots. So, after talks broke down with the NW pilots (for whatever reason) Dalpa made its own deal to protect its own pilots - isn't that what a union is supposed to do?

Delta has Anderson who, on the surface at least, is looking out for his employees and is trying to negotiate the best deal he can to protect them. This is good, although one has to wonder how much concern he has for the welfare of his former (and possibly future) employees at NWA.

NWA has Steenland, who also places a high value on his employees. In fact, I'm confident that during these negotiations he is trying to extract as much compensation (for himself) as he possibly can in exchange for each one he throws under the bus.

This is the same d*****bag who raped his employees pensions and salaries then rewarded himself with $26M in bonuses. He was unavailable for comment as he was being canonized by the Pope today.