787s for Delta? Huh? Rumor alert....

[clippyrip]

GUARANTEED, that if there are furloughs due to the merger, DC-9's or not, they will be from the combined airline list

The way I see it, if they park more DC9s than what would have been parked as a stand alone, then both groups need to share in the furloughs.

Any fleet decisions they make predicated on the new Delta fleet(NWAs and Deltas birds) should be split/shared between the two groups, for good or for bad.

That is why I don't like being operated as two companies with one owner. It is a management whipsaw dream.

 

[JAM-BRO]

If MGT had a bit more brains, they would bring everyone on board. This place would run like a top...

 

[NuGuy]

Is this a serious post?

Eastern was never offered a 20 to 40% raise, equity and relative seniority.

Man, you guys have to lay off the crack pipe with this relative seniority baloney.

It was NEVER in print because it was NEVER offered.

The closest ANYONE has come to actually publishing the REAL DAL final proposal was FDJ.

THIS was the final DAL proposal:

The top third was a 1:1.5 ratio to get the senior NWA guys to buy off on it.

The middle third was broken up, but it was close to a 1:2. Guys at the TOP of this bracket were the only ones "within 1/2 percent". Guys in the middle and bottom got totally screwed.

The bottom third was a 1:3, which isn't EVEN close to a percentage ratio. Most guys would lose THOUSANDS of numbers in seniory, and see seniority shifts between 10-20 percent.

Think I'm wrong? Call your rep and find out.

Nu

 

[FDJ2]

My guess is that dalpa has agreed with mgt to shift nwa orders to their list in the interest of protecting THEIR members at the expense of others.

No NWA orders will be flown by Delta pilots until there is a joint contract, single seniority list and single operating certificate.

Hopefully will engage in joint contract negotiations ASAP.

From the Delta MEC resolution AI 08-S09A passed on April 12, 2008:

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED the Delta MEC welcomes the Northwest pilots as partners in the building of the new merged airline and looks forward to working with the Northwest MEC to bring about the rapid completion of a new joint agreement to take effect on the closing of the corporate transaction providing immediate parity in rates of pay and further providing for a rapid completion of a fair and equitable integrated seniority list to take effect on the effective date of the new joint agreement....

 

[FDJ2]

All I have is what I have heard from our guys: we agreed to a 7:5 ratio (7 DAL to 5 NWA = 1.4) and then DALPA changed it to 8:5, which = 1.6.

Hard to know who to believe with nothing official to read.

Was that a change due to the inclusion of a dynamic list and aircraft orders?

Regardless, SLI will all play itself out in due time. The more pressing issue, now that your MEC Chairman is well rested from his vacation, is the negotiations of a joint contract as soon as possible.

I know the NWA pilots don't believe in timelines for getting things done, but they exist. Ignoring them resulted in two missed opportunities already. Don't make it three.

From the Delta MEC resolution AI 08-S09A passed on April 12, 2008:

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED the Delta MEC welcomes the Northwest pilots as partners in the building of the new merged airline and looks forward to working with the Northwest MEC to bring about the rapid completion of a new joint agreement to take effect on the closing of the corporate transaction providing immediate parity in rates of pay and further providing for a rapid completion of a fair and equitable integrated seniority list to take effect on the effective date of the new joint agreement....

 

[FDJ2]

The way I see it, if they park more DC9s than what would have been parked as a stand alone, then both groups need to share in the furloughs.

How on earth do you determine that? Business plans change all the time.

Any fleet decisions they make predicated on the new Delta fleet(NWAs and Deltas birds) should be split/shared between the two groups, for good or for bad.

That's never been the case. Until there is a joint contract, single operating certificate and single list, it won't happen here either. Until that time, the NWA pilots have the protections afforded them in their CBA, as do the Delta pilots.

That is why I don't like being operated as two companies with one owner. It is a management whipsaw dream.

It' important to have scope lnguage that prevents that. We believe we do.

From the Delta MEC resolution AI 08-S09A passed on April 12, 2008:

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED the Delta MEC welcomes the Northwest pilots as partners in the building of the new merged airline and looks forward to working with the Northwest MEC to bring about the rapid completion of a new joint agreement to take effect on the closing of the corporate transaction providing immediate parity in rates of pay and further providing for a rapid completion of a fair and equitable integrated seniority list to take effect on the effective date of the new joint agreement....

 

[IronCityBlue]

GUARANTEED, that if there are furloughs due to the merger, DC-9's or not, they will be from the combined airline list, arbitrator or not. NWA had no plans to furlough Pre-merger, so how can it be fair if DAL decides to park planes? Any arbitrator will see that, sooner than DALPA thinks from what I am hearing.

NWA's stand alone plan at 95/bbl or their DC-9 laden stand alone plan at 130/bbl? Right now I don't think there are any plans for furloughs in the near future because management has been promising everyone none, including the regulators they are trying to massage. But throw in an even more severe to extreme oil crisis and DC-9's will be parked really quick. NWA had a good cash position and Pacific route structure pre merger, but 130/bbl oil would have changed that anyway.

That said, there should be no reason to furlough less than 2000 pilots. 500 would easily be able to be absorbed by lower bid divisors as well as taking it out of the equity payout. Why give senior guys a quarter mil of the new found money when you can lower monthly lines and keep everyone around? Particularly when its a contentious issue. Furloughs from either group would be a disaster and should be agressively avoided by management and pilot leadership.

But in no case will an arbitrator let you furlough from both lists because of the parking of -9's only when you are being run as seperate companies pre merger, and this is still pre merger. The DAL LOA hasn't taken effect yet, and regulatory aprooval will take many months. Until then they are 100% seperate airlines, and any arbitrator would see that. The NWA negotiators are way past their peak "premium widebody," "phantom 78," and "76's don't count as widebody flying" leverage. Way past. And any arbitrator will see that too, "guaranteed."

 

[nwaredtail]

NWA's stand alone plan at 95/bbl or their DC-9 laden stand alone plan at 130/bbl? Right now I don't think there are any plans for furloughs in the near future because management has been promising everyone none, including the regulators they are trying to massage. But throw in an even more severe to extreme oil crisis and DC-9's will be parked really quick. NWA had a good cash position and Pacific route structure pre merger, but 130/bbl oil would have changed that anyway.

That said, there should be no reason to furlough less than 2000 pilots. 500 would easily be able to be absorbed by lower bid divisors as well as taking it out of the equity payout. Why give senior guys a quarter mil of the new found money when you can lower monthly lines and keep everyone around? Particularly when its a contentious issue. Furloughs from either group would be a disaster and should be agressively avoided by management and pilot leadership.

But in no case will an arbitrator let you furlough from both lists because of the parking of -9's only when you are being run as seperate companies pre merger, and this is still pre merger. The DAL LOA hasn't taken effect yet, and regulatory aprooval will take many months. Until then they are 100% seperate airlines, and any arbitrator would see that. The NWA negotiators are way past their peak "premium widebody," "phantom 78," and "76's don't count as widebody flying" leverage. Way past. And any arbitrator will see that too, "guaranteed."

Complete crap, at 130 bbl oil, all airplanes are pissing away money.

How many arbirtrations has DAL been through in the last 20 years? Let's just say, we like our odds.

 

[NuGuy]

But throw in an even more severe to extreme oil crisis and DC-9's will be parked really quick. NWA had a good cash position and Pacific route structure pre merger, but 130/bbl oil would have changed that anyway.

But in no case will an arbitrator let you furlough from both lists because of the parking of -9's only when you are being run as seperate companies pre merger, and this is still pre merger. The DAL LOA hasn't taken effect yet, and regulatory aprooval will take many months. Until then they are 100% seperate airlines, and any arbitrator would see that. The NWA negotiators are way past their peak "premium widebody," "phantom 78," and "76's don't count as widebody flying" leverage. Way past. And any arbitrator will see that too, "guaranteed."

Heyas Sparky,

Yup, you're right. Separate companies. NWA scope is still in effect, and with the narrowbody floor, they can't park -9s, 320s or 757s without parking RJs.

An arbitrator will see that, too.

Nu

 

[IronCityBlue]

Heyas Sparky,

Yup, you're right. Separate companies. NWA scope is still in effect, and with the narrowbody floor, they can't park -9s, 320s or 757s without parking RJs.

An arbitrator will see that, too.

Nu

And make them park RJ's. You say that like its a bad thing.