737 PFT: Set Me Straight

[mar]

You said it brother

Vik--I don't think I could've said it better. You have quite an enlightened perspective for a relative new-comer to this twisted industry.

Dogg--With all due respect my friend I don't think I get your drift. Would you mind explaining your position a little more for those of us that are up too late and may have indulged a little too much.

Peace all

 

[Saabslime]

Unlike true PFT programs, (Gulfstream, Pinnacle, etc.) SWA doesn't see a dime from you buying a 737 type so it's not profit motivated in any way. They couldn't care less how you get typed. Like others have said it's simply a job requirement if you want to work there.

 

[asacap]

I guess you could spin the PFT issue both ways quite easily. It seems to come down to wether or not you want to work there. If you do, then it's not PFT. If you don't, then it is. Bottom line is - you can't get the job if you don't pay. That's a fact. Go ahead and continue spinning.

 

[RJones]

What is Pay for Training? Well it's just what it says...that you are willing to provide personal credit for the training costs that are required by the FAA, either in advance/up front, or as in most cases you sign a contract that binds you to pay should you elect to leave prior to the date ending that contract.

The idea of Pay for Training is to eliminate turnover. What upsets everyone with this issue is that the FAA requires initial training and what are you going to do with that companies training should you leave, but yet you've paid for that training...or at least signed a contract that says you will should you leave. If you go to work for company A and they fly MD-80's, you quit and go to work for company Z that also flies MD-80's, are you going to get a pass on initial training? I think not, you have to go through it all over again. So it's not a marketable investment for anyone who does it.

Like the rest of you I don't like to see this stuff. Your strength is in what you bring to the table in the form of work you can provide to any company, not to provide credit for training. You have to think of yourself as a product your selling and stay away from buying yourself a job.

Let's take a look at Southwest and the 737-type rating requirement for employment. A few here feel it's a PFT, but I beg to differ. It's a requirement for employment just like the ATP is. Some commuters used to advertise commercial with ATP written, I haven't seen that in a while.

Requiring a type rating for a job is not new, most corporate and 135 charter outfits require them as well. Of the type ratings you see to the left one was purchased for me (CE500), this after six months on the job, one I studied on my own and took the plane to the FAA (CE650), and one I paid for as a pre-employment job requirement (B-737). The nice thing about these type ratings is that they are mine, you can't have them, I didn't sign any contracts binding me down, I am free go to another employer if I wish.

My point here, PFT (I regret to say I signed one but was able to get out of it, will never do that again) is not an investment...it's quicksand, why do it when you can't take the training to another company. The type, it's yours and nobody but the FAA can take it away from you...quite a distinction I think!

RJ

 

[asacap]

Hey RJONES,

Just a quick question, did you buy a 737 type? Please, just yes or no, no spin. Thanks.

 

[RJones]

yes

 

[Timebuilder]

for asacap

You might have missed this, above. I think it lacks any kind of spin:

PFT:

1) You pay money to a specific carrier in order to fly for that specific carrier.

2) You take a position in return for that money which would normally be filled by a paid, competant pilot, who is paid a wage as a cost of doing business, not from the money he paid in.

If I pay money to say, Gulfstream Academy, and take an FO position based on the money I just paid to said company, that would be PFT.

If I train for a type rating and take a checkride, I have armed myself with advanced training that is portable, good at any carrier. I will not be paid out of an account that I have just paid into, and I have not purchased the right to act as a required crewmember.

Wouldn't you say that these are factual differences?

 

[asacap]

RJONES,

Thanks for your reply and for your honesty. I wish there was no need to pay for training, but thats just the way it is sometimes. I would buy the 737 type also for a job at southwest also.

TIMEBUILDER

However, it is still PAYING money, to receive TRAINING on a Boeing 737 type in order to increase your chances of GETTING THE JOB. I wish it wasn't that way, but it is. I believe you are still spinning the issue. It seems that you are drawing lines of distinction to make yourself look better than those who paid for a different type of PFT. Refer back to the first line of my response to you.

 

[Timebuilder]

tag, you're "it"

I PAID MONEY to get my multiengine TRAINING so I could get a JOB.

Does that make that PFT?

 

[TurboS7]

We are not hiring where I work at the present time. If we were here is the way it would work for the 737-800. If we had two compatable people they would have 6500TT, both military, either Navy or AirForce, and 4 year degrees. If one had a 737 and the other did not we all things even we would hire the one with the type. In most cases since we would be hiring more than one we would hire them both, the military being the next important issue, next the degree, then next previous 121 or 135jet experience.Nowadays it is impossible to get hired as we have ex-USair, United , and even American 737 guys current and qualified banging on the door begging for a job. It is tough out there and when UAL goes Chapter 11(they have already notifed United Express that they are going to do it) there will be a bunch more.