717's at Delta

[Lear70]

If AT returns the 717s to Boeing and then Boeing subsequently leases them to DAL, does that trigger the fragmentation clause?

They're not.

Southwest is retaining the leases and sub-leasing them directly to Delta. That much of the deal we know.

 

[JT12345]

How much has Delta/NWA hired the last 11 years? With the 5 year furloughs and age 65.

 

[Skippy]

So. Ur possibly getting 88 planes. How many net planes after they retire dc9s?

 

[Lear70]

The -9's don't start going away until about the same time the 717's do if memory serves...

If they don't buy more planes, zero growth scenario, retirements take care of the DC-9's going away from a staffing perspective. No furloughs but no growth.

 

[Daddy]

So where do the airtran pilots want to go? SWA or DAL?

Serious question

 

[KarmaPolice]

Im not sure, but I think Delta has hired 5-600 people. (in 08 and 10)

Steve Dickson (Senior VP flt ops) addressed this scenario last week and made a clear promise to us that the Airtrain pilots would NOT be coming with the planes.

This would be a double nightmare for us on the list (if they came) considering the 717s are our carrot for letting DCI get 70 more 76 seaters.

If we were to just take the 717s without giving up the 76 seaters, I think we'd be far more welcoming to the Airtrain people joining us.

I've got a question though. What exact career damage to the Airtran people does the 717 going away do? All that lift will be replaced by the 737 order right? I'm not familiar with the details of your SLI.

 

[PCL_128]

I've got a question though. What exact career damage to the Airtran people does the 717 going away do? All that lift will be replaced by the 737 order right? I'm not familiar with the details of your SLI.

All of our captains lose their seats, those who live in Atlanta will be forced to commute, and those of us who bid the 717 to stay in a "seniority bubble" for the next 10-12 years that protected us from the horrendous seniority integration will now lose that bubble and be forced into the general bidding population. My relative seniority in seat will go from 33% to about 90%. Hundreds of thousands of dollars lost to many pilots, and immeasurable losses to quality of life for many others. It's a real %^&* sandwich.

 

[PCL_128]

So where do the airtran pilots want to go? SWA or DAL?

Serious question

I'm sure you'll find many different answers, but I know a lot of us would very much like an opportunity to go to DAL. I'd rather be stapled at DAL than keep my 90% number at SWA, in fact. Upgrade time would be cut almost in half, career earnings would be higher, and I could still be based at home in Atlanta.

But unfortunately, I don't think that's going to be an option. The best possible outcome is probably going to be getting some money from SWA after a grievance.

 

[rjfo]

All of our captains lose their seats, those who live in Atlanta will be forced to commute, and those of us who bid the 717 to stay in a "seniority bubble" for the next 10-12 years that protected us from the horrendous seniority integration will now lose that bubble and be forced into the general bidding population. My relative seniority in seat will go from 33% to about 90%. Hundreds of thousands of dollars lost to many pilots, and immeasurable losses to quality of life for many others. It's a real %^&* sandwich.

If its gonna be so bad and drastic, resign and start as a delta new hire. Isn't the upgrade over there going to be 10 years... It's America last I checked your not an indentured servant, you don't owe your company anything, move on.

 

[PCL_128]

With 30,000 applicants for maybe 1,000 spots in the next few years, easier said than done.

 

[rjfo]

So you're saying there's a chance...Sounds like better odds than getting hired off the street at Southwest; there were 14k apps for the 150 they hired last year. What about Fedex, UPS...reading your post it sounds like anything would be preferrable to the jerks over at SWA. Or maybe not...

 

[GogglesPisano]

The 717's are not DC9 replacements, they are CRJ-200 replacements, ie:they are growth aircraft.

The 35 MD90's we are receiving over the next 2 years are the DC9 replacements.

The 100 737-900ER's we are taking delivery of over the next three years are replacements for the oldest 757's, 320's and the domestic 767's.

There may be a lawsuit or two initiated by Air Tran pilots who would like to come with the aircraft. That's to be expected. But, our SVP of Flight Ops has publicly stated and without equivocation that these aircraft would not come with pilots.

Further, the 717's are being leased to Delta directly from Boeing.

 

[General Lee]

So general, what do you think about AT defending their fragmentation clause?
I'm sure you'd rather hire off the street, but if it's in their contract...
Looks more like a reality you have-
How do those 717's get you to a 73 upgrade?

They can try it if they want, but it sounds like the language is clear, and I have a feeling mountains of lawyers have poured over this. Our VP stated unequivocly that NO other pilots would come with the planes. We are also getting MD90s from China and Japan. Will their pilots come along too? I doubt it.

I can hold junior NYC 737 Captain now in New York, and if there are some early out retirements or guys in New York that want to go back to Atlanta, I may slide right in. I'd commute for a $70 an hour raise.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[jonjuan]

With 30,000 applicants for maybe 1,000 spots in the next few years, easier said than done.

Just wear your "We Are ALPA" pin to the interview. You'll be a shoe-in. imp:

 

[Cometman]

The 717's are not DC9 replacements, they are CRJ-200 replacements, ie:they are growth aircraft.

The 35 MD90's we are receiving over the next 2 years are the DC9 replacements.

The 100 737-900ER's we are taking delivery of over the next three years are replacements for the oldest 757's, 320's and the domestic 767's.

There may be a lawsuit or two initiated by Air Tran pilots who would like to come with the aircraft. That's to be expected. But, our SVP of Flight Ops has publicly stated and without equivocation that these aircraft would not come with pilots.

Further, the 717's are being leased to Delta directly from Boeing.

I think Lear 70 said they re being sub-leased to Delta from SWA. So, who is correct?

 

[GogglesPisano]

[/B]

I think Lear 70 said they re being sub-leased to Delta from SWA. So, who is correct?

My information is from DALPA FAQ sheets.

 

[Cometman]

My information is from DALPA FAQ sheets.

You are probably correct. Lear70 and PCL are both dreaming and think they will get money from SWA. They got what they deserve already and they need to move on with their life. That is if they have one.

 

[27 driver]

You are probably correct. Lear70 and PCL are both dreaming and think they will get money from SWA. They got what they deserve already and they need to move on with their life. That is if they have one.

I think both LEAR and PCL have stated that we can't force DAL to honor our contract. It is not with DAL. What they are saying is there might be a grievance with LUV management as they will be in violation if the fragmentation language is triggered. I don't think any sane person thinks any pilots will go with the 717's.

 

[dicko]

but if it's in their contract...

From a SWA pilot ? That's like getting child minding tips from Jerry Sandusky.

 

[malibuVride]

I'm sure you'll find many different answers, but I know a lot of us would very much like an opportunity to go to DAL. I'd rather be stapled at DAL than keep my 90% number at SWA, in fact. Upgrade time would be cut almost in half, career earnings would be higher, and I could still be based at home in Atlanta.

Agreed 110%! maybe there's a chance we could go over that way if we desire. It's not the way I'd wish for, but it sure beats this deal with SWA!!