717's at Delta

[rjfo]

So you're saying there's a chance...Sounds like better odds than getting hired off the street at Southwest; there were 14k apps for the 150 they hired last year. What about Fedex, UPS...reading your post it sounds like anything would be preferrable to the jerks over at SWA. Or maybe not...

 

[GogglesPisano]

The 717's are not DC9 replacements, they are CRJ-200 replacements, ie:they are growth aircraft.

The 35 MD90's we are receiving over the next 2 years are the DC9 replacements.

The 100 737-900ER's we are taking delivery of over the next three years are replacements for the oldest 757's, 320's and the domestic 767's.

There may be a lawsuit or two initiated by Air Tran pilots who would like to come with the aircraft. That's to be expected. But, our SVP of Flight Ops has publicly stated and without equivocation that these aircraft would not come with pilots.

Further, the 717's are being leased to Delta directly from Boeing.

 

[General Lee]

So general, what do you think about AT defending their fragmentation clause?
I'm sure you'd rather hire off the street, but if it's in their contract...
Looks more like a reality you have-
How do those 717's get you to a 73 upgrade?

They can try it if they want, but it sounds like the language is clear, and I have a feeling mountains of lawyers have poured over this. Our VP stated unequivocly that NO other pilots would come with the planes. We are also getting MD90s from China and Japan. Will their pilots come along too? I doubt it.

I can hold junior NYC 737 Captain now in New York, and if there are some early out retirements or guys in New York that want to go back to Atlanta, I may slide right in. I'd commute for a $70 an hour raise.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[jonjuan]

With 30,000 applicants for maybe 1,000 spots in the next few years, easier said than done.

Just wear your "We Are ALPA" pin to the interview. You'll be a shoe-in. imp:

 

[Cometman]

The 717's are not DC9 replacements, they are CRJ-200 replacements, ie:they are growth aircraft.

The 35 MD90's we are receiving over the next 2 years are the DC9 replacements.

The 100 737-900ER's we are taking delivery of over the next three years are replacements for the oldest 757's, 320's and the domestic 767's.

There may be a lawsuit or two initiated by Air Tran pilots who would like to come with the aircraft. That's to be expected. But, our SVP of Flight Ops has publicly stated and without equivocation that these aircraft would not come with pilots.

Further, the 717's are being leased to Delta directly from Boeing.

I think Lear 70 said they re being sub-leased to Delta from SWA. So, who is correct?

 

[GogglesPisano]

[/B]

I think Lear 70 said they re being sub-leased to Delta from SWA. So, who is correct?

My information is from DALPA FAQ sheets.

 

[Cometman]

My information is from DALPA FAQ sheets.

You are probably correct. Lear70 and PCL are both dreaming and think they will get money from SWA. They got what they deserve already and they need to move on with their life. That is if they have one.

 

[27 driver]

You are probably correct. Lear70 and PCL are both dreaming and think they will get money from SWA. They got what they deserve already and they need to move on with their life. That is if they have one.

I think both LEAR and PCL have stated that we can't force DAL to honor our contract. It is not with DAL. What they are saying is there might be a grievance with LUV management as they will be in violation if the fragmentation language is triggered. I don't think any sane person thinks any pilots will go with the 717's.

 

[dicko]

but if it's in their contract...

From a SWA pilot ? That's like getting child minding tips from Jerry Sandusky.

 

[malibuVride]

I'm sure you'll find many different answers, but I know a lot of us would very much like an opportunity to go to DAL. I'd rather be stapled at DAL than keep my 90% number at SWA, in fact. Upgrade time would be cut almost in half, career earnings would be higher, and I could still be based at home in Atlanta.

Agreed 110%! maybe there's a chance we could go over that way if we desire. It's not the way I'd wish for, but it sure beats this deal with SWA!!

 

[waveflyer]

Im not sure, but I think Delta has hired 5-600 people. (in 08 and 10)

Steve Dickson (Senior VP flt ops) addressed this scenario last week and made a clear promise to us that the Airtrain pilots would NOT be coming with the planes.

This would be a double nightmare for us on the list (if they came) considering the 717s are our carrot for letting DCI get 70 more 76 seaters.

If we were to just take the 717s without giving up the 76 seaters, I think we'd be far more welcoming to the Airtrain people joining us.

I've got a question though. What exact career damage to the Airtran people does the 717 going away do? All that lift will be replaced by the 737 order right? I'm not familiar with the details of your SLI.

Unbelievable you guys are considering this.

Like I said, a double sellout then- not only are you selling out - new FLEET of -900's that could mean hundreds of new mainline jobs, you're just working around another ALPA carriers fragmentation language. Wonder how all those ex-eastern guys there feel about that?

 

[waveflyer]

With 30,000 applicants for maybe 1,000 spots in the next few years, easier said than done.

God forbid you earn a top tier job through the front door, competition and all. Delta's no more desirable to new applicants than swa, which is why seniority at swa is more valuable than seniority at AT. It's a tougher job to get. Funny how you acknowledge that with ALPA delta, but not swa. Once a hater, always...

 

[waveflyer]

Agreed 110%! maybe there's a chance we could go over that way if we desire. It's not the way I'd wish for, but it sure beats this deal with SWA!!

If you don't want to be at swa, then I hope for it too.

What I'd love to see is the exact wording of your fragmentation clause. The devil's in the details.

 

[Lear70]

My information is from DALPA FAQ sheets.

I'm prevented from disclosing my source by a confidentiality agreement.

That said, we'll see in about 10 days when the actual agreement is made public. Until then, we wait...

 

[PCL_128]

So you're saying there's a chance...Sounds like better odds than getting hired off the street at Southwest; there were 14k apps for the 150 they hired last year. What about Fedex, UPS...reading your post it sounds like anything would be preferrable to the jerks over at SWA. Or maybe not...

Well, not anything. I still need to pay my bills, you know. But yes, my application will be in at Delta, FedEx, UPS, and United/Continental if they get their CBA done in the next few months.

 

[waveflyer]

Best news I've heard out of you in a year, PCL.
Get on fast enough and delta may not furlough you into the right seat of one of those -900's. Unlikely, so it'll be important to get in quick. Youve got to think delta will be a little grateful for the work you've done on their behalf at ALpA-
A few tips- begin a good exercise program now- dont need to be a Marine, the energy comes across well.
Get calling emerald aviation ASAP and start prepping.
Get your logbooks in electronic form- all those airlines will want different numbers and the work is well worth it.
Learn each airlines process. They're all different enough to figure out who really wants to work there and who just wants any job.
Get your ALPA buddies lined up where recs count.
You need to be as ready as possible- Don't want you spending a day at Swa that you don't want to be.
Seriously.

 

[redflyer65]

Damn Wave, that's a pretty good prep right there. You could probably charge for your services as well.

 

[Jiminmem]

I'm sure you'll find many different answers, but I know a lot of us would very much like an opportunity to go to DAL. I'd rather be stapled at DAL than keep my 90% number at SWA, in fact. Upgrade time would be cut almost in half, career earnings would be higher, and I could still be based at home in Atlanta.

But unfortunately, I don't think that's going to be an option. The best possible outcome is probably going to be getting some money from SWA after a grievance.

If this TA passes, I'll trade you my spot for a staple at SWA.

 

[waveflyer]

Damn Wave, that's a pretty good prep right there. You could probably charge for your services as well.

Haha, side business #2??
$500, PCL(!)

 

[canyonblue]

I'd rather be stapled at DAL than keep my 90% number at SWA, in fact. Upgrade time would be cut almost in half, career earnings would be higher, and I could still be based at home in Atlanta.

But unfortunately, I don't think that's going to be an option. The best possible outcome is probably going to be getting some money from SWA after a grievance.

So you would rather be on the bottom of Delto's list, well that's easy, just apply and get hired. I get the feeling you wouldn't be missed around good ol SWA anyway. Good luck, we'll see if you are really serious about your statement.

 

[Cometman]

So you would rather be on the bottom of Delto's list, well that's easy, just apply and get hired. I get the feeling you wouldn't be missed around good ol SWA anyway. Good luck, we'll see if you are really serious about your statement.

Do you really think he could get hired by Delta? The only reason he is with SWA is because Airtran was bought.

 

[EngineThunder]

The real question is would he list his time at Gulstream on his resume? He somehow left that off of his ALPA bio. An innocent oversight on his part.

 

[SWA/FO]

Will PCL even make it to Southwest or will he jump ship?

 

[carl p]

God forbid you earn a top tier job through the front door, competition and all. Delta's no more desirable to new applicants than swa, which is why seniority at swa is more valuable than seniority at AT. It's a tougher job to get. Funny how you acknowledge that with ALPA delta, but not swa. Once a hater, always...

Wave do you tell the Morris Captains you fly with that they came in the back door to your airline? Better yet, how about your senior Captains who hired into SWA 20-25 years ago...do you ask them why they didn't "earn a top tier job, competition and all"??? SWA hasn't always been what it is today, and one could easily argue it was no better than AT was 17 years into its existence. I find this attitude arrogant and insulting especially considering the humble beginnings of SWA.

This is the kind of attitude that will make the healing harder. I'm aware we have our own issues to get past for the good of all as well...

 

[redflyer65]

Carl,

It might be best to do some research about the Morris pilots before posting...


THEY ALL STARTED AT THE BOTTOM OF THE LIST.

How's that for arrogant? Still the truth though.

 

[Uppercrust]

Will PCL even make it to Southwest or will he jump ship?

PCL will be fine. A guy like this will be snatched pretty quick by the likes of FedEx or Delta. I'd consider it a loss for southwest considering his experience.

 

[On Your Six]

If this TA passes, I'll trade you my spot for a staple at SWA.

Not me. I'm probably junior to you but I think my seniority at Delta will skyrocket compared to anyone at the bottom at SWA. If you are a SWA guy with 700 or more Airtran guys ahead of you, it may be a decade before you upgrade. Go ahead over there Jim, and thanks for letting me move up a number even faster.


Godspeed!

The OYSter

 

[On Your Six]

Carl,

It might be best to do some research about the Morris pilots before posting...


THEY ALL STARTED AT THE BOTTOM OF THE LIST.

How's that for arrogant? Still the truth though.

Red,

Was that acquistion done before Bond/Mckaskill or before the recent wave of arbitrated SLIs? You know it was. About how many Airtran pilots are ahead of you on your current list? I am sure you want all of them to leave so one day in the next decade you can upgrade.


Godspeed!


The OYSter

 

[humveedriver]

Carl,

It might be best to do some research about the Morris pilots before posting...


THEY ALL STARTED AT THE BOTTOM OF THE LIST.

How's that for arrogant? Still the truth though.

I'll let the Morris peeps speak for themselves. But it does seem kinda silly at this point to keep the SLI discussions alive. It's not going to change anything. My big concerns are; ATL base (when and who), SWAPA representation, and since the 717s are going bye bye, getting as many new 737s as possible. I used to have concerns over SWA section 6. I don't anymore. Reason being with SLI 12 and 14, you guys pretty much gave the company what they needed outside of section 6. So at this point I don't see any incentive for SWA to speed up negotiations.

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

I used to have concerns over SWA section 6. I don't anymore. Reason being with SLI 12 and 14, you guys pretty much gave the company what they needed outside of section 6. So at this point I don't see any incentive for SWA to speed up negotiations.

I hope they negotiate at least a 15 year fo payscale (really a 20 yr scale would be more appropriate), but you're right, I don't see mgmt being in any kind of hurry going forward.