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600 hours and frusterated
- Thread starter Jeff775621
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The 550 is usually a 2-pilot airplane by type certificate and, assuming you have the appropriate 61.55 endorsements, the 40 hours required SIC time is out of the ordinary for a 600 hour traffic watch pilot. To me, that is the more curious part of your post. The spelling comment was perhaps a bit low--we all hit the wrong keys now and then--but it is a Cheyenne III, and to spell the aircraft types correctly is a good idea. Unless someone is an aviation Human Resources person, he/she is not really qualified in this area, but this is just a free forum and you did ask. 600 hours is just the beginning as others here have said. If you not liking it now, though...
Anyway, good luck.
Anyway, good luck.
"Im a 600 hour commerical pilot with 100 hours of ME time. Ive been flying traffic watch the last 6 months. Its now november in Ohio, and the weather is changing fast, Ive learned what its like doing turns around a point with 30kt winds aloft. Anyway,Ive been reading alot of posts about the "regional" life and how it doesnt look the greatest. Im 21 years old and i have my associates degree in a non aviation related degree. Ive thought about going the CFII-MEI route becuase i dont think i would be a very good instructor and have the patience to teach. Ive been getting a taste of the corproate life by getting right seats in a Citation II. IVe got about 40 hours of Citation II time ive logged. Can anyone give me some kind of advice? Thanks for the help.
-Jeff"
many of us have been there. find a company you want to fly for and send them a resume every hundered hours or so, and/or rating change. It'll happen. just stay patient. if you are into racing look up all the race teams and bug them. good luck.
-Jeff"
many of us have been there. find a company you want to fly for and send them a resume every hundered hours or so, and/or rating change. It'll happen. just stay patient. if you are into racing look up all the race teams and bug them. good luck.
BenderGonzales
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jul 3, 2005
- Posts
- 859
Generations
I have been noticing that there is a wide gap between two distinct groups on what livable wage is.
Group A (genaration X and older) primarily seem to be comprised of people under 35 who either work for a regional or hope to. These people feel that 60K is a healthy and fair wage.
Group B Generation Y and younger)seem to be made up from the ranks of older pilots who either have worked for a major airline or currently do. Recent postings seem to suggest that 150-200K seems to be an acceptable wage for the job.
I believe that difference signals a major change between generations. The younger group seems to be hardening themselves for an impoverished future. They are arming themselves with a Buddhist mantra of "less is more" and that our true reward is the "joy of flight" ect. I feel that these lowered expectations are a major reason why the future of our profession will be one of continued lowing pay and benefits. When I was a new pilot everyone was aiming for the big time. We all knew that we had years of sacrifice ahead but our future expectations were high and few were prepared to accept less. The latest generation seems to feel that poor to mediocre is alright.
What do you think will happen when these guys reach the majors? Do you think they will support a strike? I think that their ranks will continue to dilute the industry until everyone is making less than a manager at Burger King. Pilots today are martyrs.
SkyLine
I have been noticing that there is a wide gap between two distinct groups on what livable wage is.
Group A (genaration X and older) primarily seem to be comprised of people under 35 who either work for a regional or hope to. These people feel that 60K is a healthy and fair wage.
Group B Generation Y and younger)seem to be made up from the ranks of older pilots who either have worked for a major airline or currently do. Recent postings seem to suggest that 150-200K seems to be an acceptable wage for the job.
I believe that difference signals a major change between generations. The younger group seems to be hardening themselves for an impoverished future. They are arming themselves with a Buddhist mantra of "less is more" and that our true reward is the "joy of flight" ect. I feel that these lowered expectations are a major reason why the future of our profession will be one of continued lowing pay and benefits. When I was a new pilot everyone was aiming for the big time. We all knew that we had years of sacrifice ahead but our future expectations were high and few were prepared to accept less. The latest generation seems to feel that poor to mediocre is alright.
What do you think will happen when these guys reach the majors? Do you think they will support a strike? I think that their ranks will continue to dilute the industry until everyone is making less than a manager at Burger King. Pilots today are martyrs.
SkyLine
mar
Remember this one?
- Joined
- Nov 27, 2001
- Posts
- 1,929
There *is* a difference
There is a difference between being a martyr and simply falling on your sword.
There is also a difference between being entry-level, young and quite naive *and* senior, middle-aged and hopefully a little wiser.
And apparently the only difference between you and I is philosophic because I think when you're young and full of inspiration that is the time you work long and hard for not very much.
But as you gain experience (which you think the young punks consider as old fashioned now) then you have earned the right to WORK LESS FOR MORE.
But the problem, as you probably agree, is that everyone wants more for less right now.
So the problem my friend is NOT with the airline industry but within our selfish and lazy little minds.
The sooner we take the broad view and the long view towards LIFE and not just our career the easier it is to accept life for what it is: sacrifice.
You cannot gain something without giving up something else.
And that simple fact alone puts this entire thread in perspective (at least for me) because what I keep reading on this board is that young flight instructors are so thoroughly bored and frustrated with their jobs that they think just as soon as they qualify in the right seat of a jet (ANY JET) that they will have made it and their struggle is finshed.
Nirvana has been attained.
But the fact of the matter is that in reality (but they lack the experience and thus the perspective to realize it) their struggle has just BEGUN. But then it's too late; they made their deal with the devil and probably got married and had a kid too.
Wouldn't it be so much better to think of yourself (when you're young and full of energy) as an apprentice?
There are many things to learn and it takes a lot of repetition over many years to finally achieve Master status.
To make my point I'll submit that thread in the General forum about the DE that asked what makes an airplane turn. Did you read any of those responses? Embarrasing. These guys are teaching people how to fly and they're bored and frustrated at their own mediocrity!!!
Who cares what role the ailerons have in a turn, right? The autopilot does that for you!
Thanks for listening.
There is a difference between being a martyr and simply falling on your sword.
There is also a difference between being entry-level, young and quite naive *and* senior, middle-aged and hopefully a little wiser.
And apparently the only difference between you and I is philosophic because I think when you're young and full of inspiration that is the time you work long and hard for not very much.
But as you gain experience (which you think the young punks consider as old fashioned now) then you have earned the right to WORK LESS FOR MORE.
But the problem, as you probably agree, is that everyone wants more for less right now.
So the problem my friend is NOT with the airline industry but within our selfish and lazy little minds.
The sooner we take the broad view and the long view towards LIFE and not just our career the easier it is to accept life for what it is: sacrifice.
You cannot gain something without giving up something else.
And that simple fact alone puts this entire thread in perspective (at least for me) because what I keep reading on this board is that young flight instructors are so thoroughly bored and frustrated with their jobs that they think just as soon as they qualify in the right seat of a jet (ANY JET) that they will have made it and their struggle is finshed.
Nirvana has been attained.
But the fact of the matter is that in reality (but they lack the experience and thus the perspective to realize it) their struggle has just BEGUN. But then it's too late; they made their deal with the devil and probably got married and had a kid too.
Wouldn't it be so much better to think of yourself (when you're young and full of energy) as an apprentice?
There are many things to learn and it takes a lot of repetition over many years to finally achieve Master status.
To make my point I'll submit that thread in the General forum about the DE that asked what makes an airplane turn. Did you read any of those responses? Embarrasing. These guys are teaching people how to fly and they're bored and frustrated at their own mediocrity!!!
Who cares what role the ailerons have in a turn, right? The autopilot does that for you!
Thanks for listening.
Lead Sled
Sitt'n on the throne...
- Joined
- Apr 1, 2004
- Posts
- 2,066
Mar...
I hear what you're saying. I love how it works, guys get 500 or a 1000 hours in their logbooks and they're suddenly ready for their ATP and the left seat of anything flying.
To make it in this business you have to be very focused, almost fanatical. It's rare that you ever hear of anyone having a successful aviation career who stumbled into it because he/she didn't have anything better to do. You are definitely not going to walk up to a corporate chief pilot with a "wet" commercial license or ATP and get a job. Like anything else, you've got to pay your dues and get some experience. This isn’t the military and corporations don't do "ab initio" training.
There are very very few "thousand hour wonders" in corporate cockpits these days – the insurance companies have made sure of that. Sure, you occassionaly hear of someone who manages to find the "dream" career position at 500 hours. (One of my buddies started flying the right seat in a corporate Westwind with 340 hours TT and he's been there for over 20 years.) Am I going to base all of my career planning on something that statistically is a 1 in 10 million chance. Of course I will, just like I'm going to plan my retirement on the fact that "I may already be a $10 million winner in the National Publisher's Clearinghouse Sweepstakes". We all know of exceptions to the rule. Now, I'm here to tell you that you won't be the next exception - you're going to have to end up paying your dues like the other 99.99999% of us.
You low-time guys will all get your chance - there is a lot of turnover in those "sucky, low paying" entry level turbine jobs. For now, your biggest responsibility should be to be ready for it when it comes. There is nothing worse than finding yourself in a seat that you don't have the experience and background to hold comfortably and I'm not just talking logged hours. There is a big difference between 2000 hours of experience and 1 hour of experience logged 2000 times. There are a lot of guys out there that could find themselves in way over their head.
Oh well, enough of my ramblings - I'm going to go lay down for a while.
'Sled
I hear what you're saying. I love how it works, guys get 500 or a 1000 hours in their logbooks and they're suddenly ready for their ATP and the left seat of anything flying.
To make it in this business you have to be very focused, almost fanatical. It's rare that you ever hear of anyone having a successful aviation career who stumbled into it because he/she didn't have anything better to do. You are definitely not going to walk up to a corporate chief pilot with a "wet" commercial license or ATP and get a job. Like anything else, you've got to pay your dues and get some experience. This isn’t the military and corporations don't do "ab initio" training.
There are very very few "thousand hour wonders" in corporate cockpits these days – the insurance companies have made sure of that. Sure, you occassionaly hear of someone who manages to find the "dream" career position at 500 hours. (One of my buddies started flying the right seat in a corporate Westwind with 340 hours TT and he's been there for over 20 years.) Am I going to base all of my career planning on something that statistically is a 1 in 10 million chance. Of course I will, just like I'm going to plan my retirement on the fact that "I may already be a $10 million winner in the National Publisher's Clearinghouse Sweepstakes". We all know of exceptions to the rule. Now, I'm here to tell you that you won't be the next exception - you're going to have to end up paying your dues like the other 99.99999% of us.
You low-time guys will all get your chance - there is a lot of turnover in those "sucky, low paying" entry level turbine jobs. For now, your biggest responsibility should be to be ready for it when it comes. There is nothing worse than finding yourself in a seat that you don't have the experience and background to hold comfortably and I'm not just talking logged hours. There is a big difference between 2000 hours of experience and 1 hour of experience logged 2000 times. There are a lot of guys out there that could find themselves in way over their head.
Oh well, enough of my ramblings - I'm going to go lay down for a while.
'Sled
smellthejeta
The plane I solo'd in
- Joined
- Mar 31, 2003
- Posts
- 588
I'm confused. Is it suck it up and pay your dues -- you need to work long hours for no pay all in the name of experience, or is it hold the bar and don't vote for any concessions?
The painful truth of the entire matter is that a pilot will ultimately get paid what BK judge decides he should get paid. It doesn't matter what he wants, what ALPA wants, and to some extent, what management wants -- what the BK judge decides the pilot will get paid is what the pilot will get paid.
The painful truth of the entire matter is that a pilot will ultimately get paid what BK judge decides he should get paid. It doesn't matter what he wants, what ALPA wants, and to some extent, what management wants -- what the BK judge decides the pilot will get paid is what the pilot will get paid.
mar
Remember this one?
- Joined
- Nov 27, 2001
- Posts
- 1,929
Searchin' for my lost shaker of salt
Not all pilots are created equal.
Not all contracts are equal.
Some pilots need to just STFU, suck it up and pay their dues while others need to hold the line and stand united.
Knowing the difference is the key to distinguishing the wannabe from the professional.
Now where's my spliff mahn.
smellthejeta said:
Not all pilots are created equal.
Not all contracts are equal.
Some pilots need to just STFU, suck it up and pay their dues while others need to hold the line and stand united.
Knowing the difference is the key to distinguishing the wannabe from the professional.
Now where's my spliff mahn.
siucavflight
Back from the forsaken
- Joined
- Jul 30, 2003
- Posts
- 3,512
Tired Soul
Plowing at FL370
- Joined
- Jul 6, 2004
- Posts
- 256
Maybe you should just quit crying you baby..too sexy for your Cessna huh?
600 hrs Please...:bawling:
If you're frustrated already go do something else and do everybody a favour.
Had the pleasure of dealing with one of you spineless cry babies a couple of weeks ago.
700 hrs and not willing to commit to anything ...'cause the airlines might be calling' .......true his very words.
And expecting me to give him a job and be thankfull that Mr Airline guy is willing to fly for us.
DIPSTICK:uzi:
600 hrs Please...:bawling:
If you're frustrated already go do something else and do everybody a favour.
Had the pleasure of dealing with one of you spineless cry babies a couple of weeks ago.
700 hrs and not willing to commit to anything ...'cause the airlines might be calling' .......true his very words.
And expecting me to give him a job and be thankfull that Mr Airline guy is willing to fly for us.
DIPSTICK:uzi:
I'm glad these 600 hr "aviators" have it all figured out in aviation........because I just passed 5,000 hrs and I'm still learning new stuff in the cockpit! (But maybe I am just slowwwww...)
I do KNOW in this business though, that you have to be humble and willing to learn with out the attitude.
Good luck,
I do KNOW in this business though, that you have to be humble and willing to learn with out the attitude.
Good luck,
pilotyip
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2001
- Posts
- 13,629
Go to a regional as fast as you can. You will be logging MEL turbine SIC at the rate of 50-100 hours per month. In one year you will have enough resume fluff to give you a lot more options. It is part of what they call paying your dues. If you want to be a pilot you can make it. If you want the college degree to become a whatever, get out of flying go to school full time, develop a skill that has a market and work in cube for the rest of your life. I strongly believe that $100K is a very achievable wage for anyone in aviation degreed or not. Only on a pilot board would $100K per year be scoffed at as whore wages and lowering the bar in the pilot profession, of course you should not introduce reality to this board it only brings on screams and bashing.
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