600 hours and frusterated

[LowlyPropCapt]

My $.02...

Relax. You are 21 years old and you have a whole lot of time to succeed in front of you. The folks telling you to pay your dues are correct. As a matter of fact this whole business is about paying dues, I am still paying mine in spades. First you pay your dues to become an regional FO. Then you pay more waiting for the time and seniority to upgrade. More dues are paid as a new captian trying to not screw up and get enough time to quilify for a major. It doesn't stop when you get to that major becuase now you are paying dues for more days off and better paying equipment. Come to think of it, the process doesn't really stop until you turn 60 and it is all over. It is up to you to decide if it is worth it.

I remember being in your very position not so long ago. I remember saying to all my freinds that if I could just get an airline or corporate job, I would be happy. You won't be. This job comes with all kinds of its own frustrations. Just wait until you add a wife and a couple of kids to the equation to see just how frustrating things can really be.

If you want to be in the flying biz, be patient and learn to enjoy where you are at the time you are there. Looking back, some my best times where instructing or flying little crappy airplanes in even crappier weather. Have fun. You're 21 and have a paying flying job. Lots of folks would love to have just that.

If you can't enjoy where you are while striving for the brass ring, whatever that might be to you, then do yourself a favor and get into another line of work.

Good luck.

 

[LowlyPropCapt]

2000 hours and low 6 figures, are you flying dope, because thats all i can think of.

Or he has a killer set of knee pads.

 

[siucavflight]

Papps,

I was thinking the same thing.........2,200 hrs and 6 figures doesn't add up!

Where do I apply for that job?

SCT

The right corporations will pay well, and treat you even better. If you love what you do it will show through to your potential employer and they will take care of you.


But I dont actually make 6 figures, I was exagerating a lot.

 

[Papps]

yeah that sounded like heavy pay for a low time guy like me or you (ive got about 4 thousand which isnt as much as you thought it would be when you cracked 250 durring your commercial). Just take your age and multiply by 1000, that should be your aviation income. After you figure that out, then ask your mom and dad to avoid turning your old bedroom into an office. Then finally figure out what lies you are going to need to get a chick from the bar to come home and get freaky even though you have a few "older roomates" sleeping in the house. God I cant believe how hard earned that knowledge is.....

 

[talespin]

Papps you know better than that! You don't have to go to the bar anymore! Your an airline pilot, we stay at the nicest place, make a mint, and have babes dropping to thier knees at our feet. This kid has every reason to be pissed, he has 600 hours and none of the perks. Take your 600 hours and go sh!t in your hat.

 

[aeronautic1]

Another whiney 21 year old, 600 hour, I want it all now, wanna be a jet pilot.

Come back at 1200 hours and ATP and maybe we can you use you.

 

[JohnnyP]

...

Its interesting how everyone puts down the under thousand hour crowd for their lack of experience, but when a 600TT guy fresh from Altus KC135 school comes out and asks about a regional job or whatever the case may be, no one says a word. But of course, with their 600TT, they obviously have mounds of experience dealing with single pilot night freight in ice with no boots/radar? I guess the military ground school and flight training must be that extraordinary where you don't even need to be exposed to that sort of thing. Not trying to put down or attack the Mil. folks in any shape or form, even though it sounds that way. Its just the example that popped into my head after reading some of the replys to this thread.

 

[Guitar rocker]

. Can anyone give me some kind of advice? Thanks for the help.

-Jeff

Unforutunately you wont find places like United Airlines anymore that used to hire people with 600 TT. Stick with it, and pay your dues. It is a badge of honor to have paid your dues in this industry, a badge that so many zero time UAL pukes dont have. Dont be like them.

 

[dojetdriver]

Stick with it, and pay your dues. It is a badge of honor to have paid your dues in this industry, a badge that so many zero time UAL pukes dont have. Dont be like them.

Actually, in UAL's case the term should be "pukette's"

 

[check6]

600 hours!!! Don't be frustrated. Keep flyin' my disillusioned friend.

 

[Guitar rocker]

Actually, in UAL's case the term should be "pukette's"

Are you ever right about that! Thanks for adding that in there!

 

[Flystr8]

Im a 600 hour commerical pilot with 100 hours of ME time. Ive been flying traffic watch the last 6 months. Its now november in Ohio, and the weather is changing fast, Ive learned what its like doing turns around a point with 30kt winds aloft. Anyway,Ive been reading alot of posts about the "regional" life and how it doesnt look the greatest. Im 21 years old and i have my associates degree in a non aviation related degree. Ive thought about going the CFII-MEI route becuase i dont think i would be a very good instructor and have the patience to teach. Ive been getting a taste of the corproate life by getting right seats in a Citation II. IVe got about 40 hours of Citation II time ive logged. Can anyone give me some kind of advice? Thanks for the help.

-Jeff

First of all, finish your degree. Doesnt have to be an aviation degree. Just finish it. Companies like to see the dedication. Second, traffic watch is not good time. Your IFR skills will deminish to nill since its all VFR. And as far as teaching, its a good gig. If you dont want to do it then dont, but be careful how you build the rest of the time you need.

 

[Skyline]

Flight Time

Just a few years ago 3000 was competitive for getting hired at the regionals, and forget about the RJ with those times. Our industry must be going down the tubes if companies are hiring jet FO's at 600 hours.

SkyLine

 

[Pervis]

Its interesting how everyone puts down the under thousand hour crowd for their lack of experience, but when a 600TT guy fresh from Altus KC135 school comes out and asks about a regional job or whatever the case may be, no one says a word. But of course, with their 600TT, they obviously have mounds of experience dealing with single pilot night freight in ice with no boots/radar? I guess the military ground school and flight training must be that extraordinary where you don't even need to be exposed to that sort of thing. Not trying to put down or attack the Mil. folks in any shape or form, even though it sounds that way. Its just the example that popped into my head after reading some of the replys to this thread.

You obviously have no experience with military flight training. It is that good. I was also involved in the Ab Initio program for Lufthansa. We took fresh meat from nothing to FO status on 737's and A320's in about 300 hrs. Has worked for Lufthansa for over 30 years for over 90% of their pilots. The big difference is a known, structured program vs the completely unstandardized pilot training throughout the USA. Not to say there aren't fantastic programs available, but how is an employer supposed to judge the quality of an FBO in Montana that produces very few pilots that scatter throughout the country if they pursue a career in aviation, compared to a known product?

 

[JohnnyP]

..

So you would agree to a certain extent that a fantastic ground school/training program can take the place of real world experience?

 

[Skyline]

Pervis

Pervis,

My point exactly !! It is more difficult in today's market to become licensed to cut hair than to become a regional FO. Zero to Hero in 12 months. To me that spells doom for the future pilot compensation.

SkyLine

 

[Pervis]

JohnnyP, real world experience is a must, that's why the Ab Initio program restricts new Lufthansa FO's to the right seat for I believe 5 years, in addition to the liscensing restrictions in th EU. Basically a lengthy IOE program. That experience in the military applies to single seat cockpits too. A new '16 driver sits on the wing for some time before becoming a flight lead. By the time they get out, they have a lot of real world experience ripe for those companies hiring. Not only experience, but high levels of discipline and work ethics. Not to say the civilian world doesn't produce that, but it's more of a sure thing dealing with a known product.

If there were training programs like that available in the US, entry into the airlines would be more easily attainable. I know some colleges offer that now, and yes, they must work their way up through low pay and crappy work rules. My advise, for what it's worth, is for those who desire a career in aviation is to get a degree, do the military gig, and stay in for twenty. At least you'll have a pension with guarantees. Even those who had perfect timing in the past are losing their pensions or facing furlough having to restart a career in their 50's.

Ab Initio is extremely expensive. Lufthansa pilots have to pay back a significant portion of that, over years of very low interest loans. Before there was a Euro, the starting salary was 75000 Marks/yr, with 6 weeks paid vacation to boot. That is the difference between struggling and/or greedy US airlines and gov. subsidized carriers like Lufthansa.

 

[inline]

Ok dude that sounds a bit oxymoronic. Apparently, you have no idea what flight instructing is. You think giving instrument or multi instruction isn't instructing? If you don't have the patience to teach don't bother with either CFII/MEI. Before getting on with a regional I instructed for three years as a CFI, II, MEI. What ever form of instructing your doing you need patience. If you ever make captain at a regional you better learn patience and a bit of instructor know-how. You might not understand what I mean now because your not flying with people in the right seat with 600hrs. Your FOs WILL make mistakes and you had best know how to show them otherwise.

It's not the captains job to instruct. If that FO can't fly then they need to go back in the sim. You're a line pilot. Period. There's nothing worse than some know-it-all in the left seat. And really, since when do you have to have an instructor background ( I don't) in order to fly with low time pilots? That's ridiculous.

 

[SCT]

"Ab Initio is extremely expensive. Lufthansa pilots have to pay back a significant portion of that, over years of very low interest loans. Before there was a Euro, the starting salary was 75000 Marks/yr, with 6 weeks paid vacation to boot. That is the difference between struggling and/or greedy US airlines and gov. subsidized carriers like Lufthansa."......Pervis


So your trying to say "Pay for Training" and "Quasi-Socialism"?

 

[Pervis]

SCT, please don't read between the lines. I am saying Ab Initio is an accepted method of training in Europe and the military world wide. It is very expensive, which explains why US carriers don't do it, nor would the average civilian be able to afford it without some sort of subsidy, be it government or private scholarship. No one has to pay back the military though, except with your commitment. Those that go through those training methods enjoy a big advantage over the US civilian pilot who must instruct and fly freight to get the "time". Heck, even with a military backgroung I had to do all of the above. It's not an easy career path, as we all know very well.