3M flight dept

[semperfido]

My company is nearly twice that size, we could use a couple of those G-V's for the trips we do...

size isn't everything. but a g550 seems to have it all. i am sitting here trying to think of some g550 shortcomings and i can tell you there aren't many. range maybe- it just won't go quite far enough.

 

[SlapShot]

GVFlyer-

I have always wondered why the Gulfstreams do not have leading edge slats. Wouldn't these help them significantly on shorter runways (which is where most corporate departments are based)?

 

[AA717driver]

I'll give my $.02 worth on this. Mx-wise, slats are a major pain. They are a mechanical delay looking for a place to happen.

The V/550 have pretty slow approach speeds, great brakes and TR's so short fields aren't that much of a problem. We've been into Palomar, CA--4,800' (below our generally accepted minimum runway length of 5000') and it wasn't a problem. When you get a runway shorter than 5,000', you often run into a ramp space problem.

GV can explain it to you in great detail.TC

 

[semperfido]

my guess is that the airplane doesn't need them. gulfstream met their design specs without them...so why bother? also they add weight and complexity. all the fuel in a G is in the wing as well, so the space is needed for fuel. just a guess.

 

[banned username 2]

Mx-wise, slats are a major pain. They are a mechanical delay looking for a place to happen.

Well in our Falcon fleets 28,000+ hours of flight time, I am not aware of any MX delays due to the slats of related systems...

I have to agree, that Gulfstream got the G-V/G-550 right as it has good runway numbers and slow REF speeds (comperable REF speeds to our Falcon 900EX)...

From what I understand the G-IV has quite a bit higher REF speed and worse runway numbers, the G-IV probably could have benefitted from slats...

 

[AA717driver]

Sorry about that, Falcon Capt. My reference comes from what I've heard on the street about GLEX's and my experience with slatted airline types. I forgot the Falcons have slats.

Do you know what slats add to normal mx costs?

The IV's approach speeds are higher than the V but not blindingly fast. Maybe 7-10 kts. faster for an equivalent approach?TC

 

[banned username 2]

Sorry about that, Falcon Capt. My reference comes from what I've heard on the street about GLEX's and my experience with slatted airline types. I forgot the Falcons have slats.

I have heard some bad things about the GLEX's Flap/Slat system... Sounds like they have a lot of problems with it...

Do you know what slats add to normal mx costs?

That I have no idea... I am not aware of anything special that is done to the slats beyond the normal MX checks... But then again, I'm not involved with the MX side...

The IV's approach speeds are higher than the V but not blindingly fast. Maybe 7-10 kts. faster for an equivalent approach?

Oh, ok... I was under the impression the IV's ref's were a good 15+ kts faster than the V...

 

[semperfido]

typical g4 ref = 131
typical gv ref = 119

at max land weight of 66,000 lb in g4 the ref is 148 + 10 for app = 158
at max land weight of 75,000 lb in a g550 ref is 136 + 5 for app= 141
so app speed could be about 15kts faster in g4 and it does seem a lot faster at max land weight.

very little mx req'd on our f50/f900 slats - work good last long time. very nice

 

[AA717driver]

I stand corrected...

I shot my mouth off without having flown the plane. Funny, the sim didn't seem to be that much faster than the 550.

In any event, I finally go to fly the IV this morning and it was like fido said, about 15 kts. faster than the V. I like it, though. It feels like a "real man's airplane" . I hope the G450 keeps that feel.TC

 

[banned username 2]

I hope the G450 keeps that feel.TC

I heard the G-450 was made to feel more like the G-V than the G-IV...

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

The Twin Cities aren't THAT cold! I used to live in an American city (not AK) that was VERY cold. We used to watch the weather channel in the winter, and every day we would say we wished we lived in Fargo because the weather there was better! And, with global warming the Twin Cities are getting milder every year. Two seasons ago here in GRB the Packers had a home game in mid-December. 65 degrees and sunny!

3M's flight department is awesome, and about impossible to get into (I have a friend who's an engineer for 3M).

Oh, if you're conservative, you don't want to live in MSP. It's the only large city in the Midwest that is just like living on the West Coast. It's great!!!

Cliff
HEF

 

[tk855]

Oh, if you're conservative, you don't want to live in MSP. It's the only large city in the Midwest that is just like living on the West Coast. It's great!!!

Cliff
HEF

Are you serious? This coming from someone in Wisconsin! Do you seriously think MSP is more liberal than Milwaukee or Madison? If you do, I believe you may have spent too much time outside during the winter!

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

Madison is about as non-conservative as the Twin Cities, but it's not a LARGE CITY. I think MKE is very conservative. GRB is pretty conservative also, but not too bad.

I would like to live in MSN, but it's not as big, so there's less to do than in MSP. Plus I like MN a lot better than WI.

Cliff
HEF

PS-I think Portland, OR, overall, is the best US city to live in.

 

[tony77]

I still think Global Express ROCKS!!!!

 

[GVFlyer]

I heard the G-450 was made to feel more like the G-V than the G-IV...

Yep, Gulfstream has been able to shave off 5-8 knots knots (depending on weight) from Vref speeds on the G350/G450 from the old G-IV speeds. Additionally, the G350/G450 benefits from the new FADECs and Auto-Throttles and is flown at Vref +5 rather than Vref + 10 as is done on the G-IV.

Whoever said that the Gulfstream doesn't have leading edge devices because it doesn't need them is exacty correct. The 93.47 ft., 1136.6 sq ft, wide chord, low wing loading wing with a nominal sweep of 27.88 degrees is a Swiss Army knife of a wing design allowing you to do anything from steep turns at 51,000 feet to flying an approach speed of 112 knots without the need of any additional aerodynamic devices.

In the last two weeks I've been into Carlsbad (4800 ft) and Olympia (presently 4600ft) with a Vref no greater than 114 knots and was able to make the mid-field turn-off at both facilities.

Gulfstream's philosophy is that when you buy leading edge devices you pay for them three times. The first when you buy them (complexity adds to costs), the next time to carry them around (weight of actuators and linkage), and the third time to maintain them (complexity adds to required maintenance and failure rate).

From my standpoint, the leading edge on aircraft with slats is nasty. Even with the pristine leading edge on the GV, if we are going out to do stalls we inspect the gap seals to insure that they are not deteriorating. A bad gap seal can inject a stream of high velocity air below the boundary layer on the wing's upper surface and cause early separation and stall.

Thanks for asking.

GV