30 year Career: US Legacies vs Emirates/Qatar/Ethiad

[777forever]

Wwyd?

Pros? Cons?

 

[ultrarunner]

You'll know if you picked right in 30 years. My father-in-law did 33 years at DL without a flippin' sneeze. He guessed right ;-)

 

[yellowfever]

I think US legacy schedules will be better for your long term health.

 

[paulsalem]

30 years is a long time to be an expat. From what I understand most expats eventually miss home too much.

I'm on year 1.5 of ???.

 

[Varmint]

I am in the same boat with Paul. I don't know how long I will stay abroad but I do know that I am looking at properties in other areas of the world that I have discovered only because of the expat lifestyle. Currently, I have no desire to go back home and am enjoying almost every minute of the experience.

I think that EK's growth has peaked and if you are looking at good growth/command potential if you were hired within 2 years, QR actually looks really good.

 

[Gear Disagree]

I've been asking myself this question quite a bit as of late. I'm still very happy out here and are not planning on going back home any time soon; however, 25 years from now I'm not sure how pleased I'll be with having to sit reserve, or not being able to get vacation time over Christmas, due to the fact i got it last year.

 

[iflysky]

Same boat here. Not sure what will happen. Initially it all started with just a year or two, wait out the recession and go home.
4 years down the road, have flown a wide-body all over the globe and just got my command.
It's going to be a tough decision to make when all the legacies go into a hiring spree. Stay or go and start all over again.

 

[777forever]

Very good points. Tough decision ahead for many


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[iluvetops]

I would do it if I had an age to play :-(

 

[typhoonpilot]

I would do it if I had an age to play :-(

You're still young enough to do it buddy. 25 years at a major. Probably 10-12 to make captain. Still gives you 13-15 years as a captain and all the while living in the USA. Certainly not without some risk as well. Nothing is guaranteed with U.S. carriers.

Tough decision to leave your new home though. I think you've got a good deal. Will come down to what you and your family really want.


TP

 

[Golden Falcon]

The airlines all similar, lifestyles between certain countries here varies widely...go for lifestyle, airplanes are are future beer cans anyway...well except the plastic ones..future lawn furniture?

 

[sinkrate]

Not sure how it will work out in this industry for American expats. In other industries experience/history shows that once a guy is an expat for more than five years or so they usually finish their career overseas. It takes a few years just to learn how to enjoy the life style. Once you do it is really hard to give up. Eventually you reach a point where you give up too much to come home and don't have enough time left in your career to recover it.

 

[Dumb Pilot]

Not sure how it will work out in this industry for American expats. In other industries experience/history shows that once a guy is an expat for more than five years or so they usually finish their career overseas. It takes a few years just to learn how to enjoy the life style. Once you do it is really hard to give up. Eventually you reach a point where you give up too much to come home and don't have enough time left in your career to recover it.

Agreed, at 48 I don't think that I will be returning to any job that is available right now (DAL, USAIR, UCAL) I understand that my situation is not common since I work abroad but actually live in the US and haven't uprooted my family, but still, not interested in any job back in the US.

 

[thepotato232]

Your daily reminder, ladies and gentlemen, that Dumb Pilot has a really good thing going and we all hate him very much.

I keed, I keed...

In other industries experience/history shows that once a guy is an expat for more than five years or so they usually finish their career overseas.

That's a really interesting piece of information. I would imagine there are some hard numbers out there somewhere as prevalent as expatriate work is these days, but I haven't seen any. I would imagine it's got a lot to do with a person's age when they make the jump, too.

 

[tyuwerty]

7 years overseas now. I will never return unless an unforeseen situation forces me to. No intention to come back even after I retire. 42 years old.

 

[typhoonpilot]

Ten years consecutively and counting with a combined total of 13.5 from previous ventures and I will definitely return to the USA some day. I would do it now if I could afford to. More likely between 3 and 6 years from now based on certain goals that need to be met.


TP

 

[Dumb Pilot]

Is not a matter of wanting to go back to the US aviation market, I think everyone would want to if conditions permit, but going back to the rat race! That would be very hard and I'm not talking about the economical aspect which is compelling enough, just going back to the commute alone is something that makes the hairs in the back of my neck stand on end

 

[motojet]

I agree with Dumbpilot. The idea of having to commute to Detroit or Philadelphia to sit on reserve and fly 3 or more legs a day for relatively low pay, and risk the chance of getting furloughed after the optimistic hiring doesn't pan out(again), that just doesn't appeal to me. Especially at my late 40'ish age.

But then again I have only been overseas for just over 4 years.

 

[fareview]

Maybe if you're sub 35, your wife has a good career, your commute is easy and you are happy living where you are - then a crack at the majors is probably attractive.

40+, the dream hasn't worked out as you slog away on a larJ, with possible displacement due 50 seat contraction, commuting and overall in an average situation at home, school, house etc...then EK et al may have been the way to go. I say 'may' because getting on now with EK is looking like a different story to when we joined. Most of us (sorry Bus drivers) who have posted over the last five years on EK now have our command - and it would be very tough to walk away from that for any US based job.

Most I believe will end p commuting from Asia when the kids move stateside. Boeing just released a report re-stating Asia's needs for new pilots (link below ) to 186,500 by 2030. That is very good for all of us expats.

If you are 35-40.... Well that's just 50 shades of grey

Me...gonna ride this gig and take it for everything I can ... And continue to enjoy myself.

Good luck

Respectfully,
fv
ps My worst day as an expat pilot was better than any day at a regional

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-08-27/boeing-says-asia-pacific-region-needs-185-600-pilots.html

 

[777forever]

Maybe if you're sub 35, your wife has a good career, your commute is easy and you are happy living where you are - then a crack at the majors is probably attractive.

40+, the dream hasn't worked out as you slog away on a larJ, with possible displacement due 50 seat contraction, commuting and overall in an average situation at home, school, house etc...then EK et al may have been the way to go. I say 'may' because getting on now with EK is looking like a different story to when we joined. Most of us (sorry Bus drivers) who have posted over the last five years on EK now have our command - and it would be very tough to walk away from that for any US based job.

Most I believe will end p commuting from Asia when the kids move stateside. Boeing just released a report re-stating Asia's needs for new pilots (link below ) to 186,500 by 2030. That is very good for all of us expats.

If you are 35-40.... Well that's just 50 shades of grey

Me...gonna ride this gig and take it for everything I can ... And continue to enjoy myself.

Good luck

Respectfully,
fv
ps My worst day as an expat pilot was better than any day at a regional

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-08-27/boeing-says-asia-pacific-region-needs-185-600-pilots.html

In your 40s and Captain on the 777. Must be an amazing feeling. Very happy for you guys. Thanks for all the info!

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2

 

[fareview]

Lots of guys in their 30's also.

fv

 

[the turtle]

If I stay out here another ten yrs (mid 40's now) one less worry that I have is being able to purchase health ins and a relatively fair rate, and with pre-exisiting conditions. That weighted heavily on me before....not so much now, thanks to the affordable care act.

 

[thepotato232]

For my part, I worked a bit off and on in Africa since the RJ furlough, and only recently landed my current gig in mainland China. Now with a few ticks of the clock left before the big Three-Oh and just finding my first grey hairs in the mirror, I confess I don't really know what I would do if the big guys back in the States called. The prospect of coming home in time to hit the fabled hiring boom and sitting pretty near the top of a major's list in twenty years is a tempting one, but I've seen a LOT of pilots better and smarter than me fall into that trap only to wind up on the street for the better part of a decade. For now, my company's treating me right, I'm picking up the language, and life is pretty good.

With as much dumb luck as it's taken for me to get as far as I have, I'm hesitant to plan as far ahead as thirty years. As it stands, I've got to agree with fareview's sentiment that my worst day as an expat was better than my best day in the regionals.

...well, more exciting, at least. And with a much bigger paycheck to show for it.

 

[Dumb Pilot]

I confess I don't really know what I would do if the big guys back in the States called. The prospect of coming home in time to hit the fabled hiring boom and sitting pretty near the top of a major's list in twenty years is a tempting one, but I've seen a LOT of pilots better and smarter than me fall into that trap only to wind up on the street for the better part of a decade.

I don't envy your position the P, you are indeed at an age where it would be a logical career move to go back since you have time to climb the latter still, provided the predicted upswing of the industry will give you enough distance from the furlough fodder area of the seniority list. When you get that call, it will indeed be a very difficult decision to make.

For me it is a lot easier decision to make because at 48, that ship sailed.

Most I believe will end p commuting from Asia when the kids move stateside. Boeing just released a report re-stating Asia's needs for new pilots (link below ) to 186,500 by 2030. That is very good for all of us expats.

If you are 35-40.... Well that's just 50 shades of grey

Me...gonna ride this gig and take it for everything I can ... And continue to enjoy myself.

Good luck

Respectfully,
fv
ps My worst day as an expat pilot was better than any day at a regional

:beer:

 

[WYOMINGPILOT]

If I stay out here another ten yrs (mid 40's now) one less worry that I have is being able to purchase health ins and a relatively fair rate, and with pre-exisiting conditions. That weighted heavily on me before....not so much now, thanks to the affordable care act.

Good Luck with that if Romney is elected and gets it repealed.

 

[the turtle]

wow that didn't take long...just over two days

impressive

 

[Freight Dog]

36 years old... I'd love to go back, but for the life of me, how do you escape the golden handcuffs? To make matters "worse", wife loves it abroad.

 

[Varmint]

Dubai soon new int'l hub for Qantas European operations

SYDNEY, AUSTRALIA, 6th September 2012: Emirates and Qantas today announced a new global aviation partnership that will give customers a seamless international and Australian network, exclusive frequent flyer benefits and world‐class travel experiences.

Under the agreement signed this morning by Emirates President Tim Clark and Qantas CEO Alan Joyce, Qantas will move its hub for European flights from Singapore to Dubai and enter an extensive commercial relationship with Emirates.
The 10-year codesharing partnership is enhanced by integrated network collaboration with coordinated pricing, sales and scheduling as well as a benefits sharing model. Neither airline will take equity in the other.

The partnership will see Qantas, along with anchor tenant Emirates, as the only other airline operating at Dubai International’s Terminal 3. The two airlines will jointly offer 98 weekly services between Australia and the global gateway city of Dubai including four daily A380 flights. As the largest international carrier, Emirates' extensive route network provides Qantas customers with one-stop access to more than 90 destinations in Europe, the Middle East, Africa and West Asia.

In addition, Qantas will launch a daily A380 service from both Sydney and Melbourne to London via Dubai for a combined unprecedented seven daily A380 flights to London Heathrow. Qantas will be the first Australasian carrier to operate scheduled services to Dubai, delivering an additional 900 seats daily from Melbourne and Sydney. This will further accelerate the number of Australasian passengers travelling through Dubai which grew by 26.3% in the first half of 2012.

For Emirates customers it will open up Qantas’ Australian domestic network of more than 50 destinations and nearly 5,000 flights per week. The carriers will also coordinate their respective trans-Tasman services between Australia and New Zealand with Emirates offering improved schedules for flights to Christchurch and Auckland – including the introduction of Emirates’ daily A380 services on the Melbourne-Auckland route in October.

Emirates and Qantas frequent flyer agreements will be linked, giving customers expanded opportunities to earn and redeem points, with reciprocal access to tier status benefits including end-to-end recognition of customers, lounge access, priority check-in and boarding as well as other exclusive services.

“The time was right for developing a long term, future forward partnership with Qantas, the iconic Australian airline,” said Tim Clark, President of Emirates. “Since our first flights began in 1996, Australia has long been a popular destination for Emirates leisure and business travellers, making it one of the top three destinations in our network.” “By establishing this partnership we are providing our passengers with additional connectivity in Australia and the region and the ability to utilise enhanced frequent flyer benefits and have access to premium lounges for an exceptional travel experience.”

Emirates and Qantas will work together to ensure a seamless customer experience, including mutual lounge access, shared use of Emirates’ unique dedicated A380 facility slated to open in early 2013 in Dubai, coordinated baggage allowances and a chauffeur service for premium customers.

Qantas Group CEO Alan Joyce said the partnership would deliver unprecedented benefits to Qantas customers and mark a decisive step forward in the Group’s strategy. “Emirates is the ideal partner for Qantas,” Mr Joyce said. “It has a wonderful brand, a modern fleet, an uncompromising approach to quality and it flies to the A‐list of international destinations.

“As the world’s biggest international airline, with a network that perfectly complements our own, Emirates will help us give our customers across Australia a dramatically expanded range of travel options. “Together with Emirates, Qantas will provide a unique ‘one stop’ hub service, as well as a deeply integrated frequent flyer and customer proposition.

“The partnership delivers on all four pillars of the Qantas Group’s international strategy: it will see us fly to the global gateway city of Dubai, provide some of the world’s best travel experiences through both Qantas and Emirates, improve our position in Asia through better timed flights and, crucially, help build a strong Qantas International business for the long term, he added.”

The airlines will submit applications for authorisation to the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC) and other relevant regulatory authorities, in order to begin commercial planning. Subject to regulatory approvals, it is anticipated that the partnership arrangements will take effect in April 2013.

 

[cameltoad]

I'm afraid Dumb Pilot and Freight Dog are right. I went to USAir in 07. Retirement age changed and I got furloughed 8 months later. I spent 3 years abroad as a A-320 Ca. bonus, the family loved it. Finally I was told to come back or be dropped, nice. Now after being back one year the good part has been I live in base and only fly about 20 hrs. a month, the bad is I am now 48 years old, the ugly is having burned thru what I saved I am now going in dept make 1/3 what I made abroad, and I just don't have the years to wait for "better things are just over the horizon"
Any thoughts where to take 1600hrs. of A-320 PIC time?
Cheers

 

[cameltoad]

I meant to say debt