30 year Career: US Legacies vs Emirates/Qatar/Ethiad

[HA25]

Wwyd?

Pros? Cons?

I wouldn't trade 30 years at HAL for anything... certainly not a foreign job.

 

[Varmint]

I wouldn't trade 30 years at HAL for anything... certainly not a foreign job.

yeah.....certainly not one of them there foreign jobs.

 

[cameltoad]

Say does any one have experience with the Koreans? I was thinking of trying the 330 transition program at Korean or going to Asiana. Hopefully their med. processes are a little more sane....

PS: Hot Pot ain't so bad, beats spitting out the little bones of the "meat" in the crew meal!

 

[CCDiscoB]

Life is too short to spend it in the seniority rat race if you're an experienced pilot.

Bump...
Well said. this "old" dude going overseas at first opportunity. Any updates?

 

[Dumb Pilot]

Bump...
Well said. this "old" dude going overseas at first opportunity. Any updates?

I see that you have the 744 rating? I would suggest (provided you are in fair shape) that you take a look at NCA! They seem to be a happy go lucky bunch!

 

[HA25]

I see that you have the 744 rating? I would suggest (provided you are in fair shape) that you take a look at NCA! They seem to be a happy go lucky bunch!

only if he's as fit as a tri-athlete... but yeah. I also know friends who are happy at Qatar Air, as street captains on the 777, and they don't require the type, only wide body glass PIC.

 

[Dumb Pilot]

A tri-athlete would actually have more troubles passing the medical than somebody that is just fit and takes regular care of themselves, I have seen many guys that are health nuts failing the medical, there is such a thing as "too fit" we have a pilot that participates in iron man competitions and he has to take a month off his exercise routine and training before his medical, in the other hand, the only preparation I do before my medicals is to set the alarm clock.

Sure Qatar is a good option for those that want to uproot their families but it is not a commuting job (or at least not practical for commuting) the reason why I suggested NCA was because of their easy commute and good quality of life while at work, all those jobs in the ME will fly you 80 to 90 hours a month, for an experienced pilot that has been flying for 30 plus years that is just too much, NCA offers an easier roster pattern and a very stable days off pattern.

 

[HA25]

Makes sense. Yeah my bmi was too high at 6' tall and 206.

Too bad cause I do like easy commute and not working my arse off.

The ME carriers are in for a rude awakening when hiring picks up here in the US. They'll have a tough time getting much more than RJ FO's if they don't fix QOL

 

[Dumb Pilot]

Yeap, if your BMI is anything above 30 (at least for the pre employment medical, after you get the job is not so strict) you won't get it, over 60% of people that take the medical (according to one of the agency guys) fail it. Blood pressure is a biggie, anybody running from concourse A to X doing six legged days and eating McCholesterol on a regular basis better get into a regime of a couple of months in preparation beforehand.

About the applicants, they are seeing the effects of the US market getting better already, we have a fair bit of attrition of guys going back to the US now! And the recruiting campaign from competitors is getting pretty heated, China is exercising a lot of pressure with high salaries and they are comming to the realization that adding QOL (more days off, better commuting conditions) gets them applicants.

 

[fareview]

Makes sense. Yeah my bmi was too high at 6' tall and 206.

Too bad cause I do like easy commute and not working my arse off.

The ME carriers are in for a rude awakening when hiring picks up here in the US. They'll have a tough time getting much more than RJ FO's if they don't fix QOL

With all due respect - I don't know one American - and I mean not one at EK who is considering going and applying at the US majors.

WRT rude awakening ...you must be joking...currently 2000 qualified apps for 100 positions this year.

Why would any of us in the LHS (or the potential for it) at EK even think about going to the US. (Taxes alone!)

Perfect here? No.

But compared to going back...not a chance. Most of us making hay and having a blast, that said you need to proceed with caution as getting on the wrong side of "the man" here can be costly.

Gotta go, chauffeur waiting outside my villa...

fv

 

[Varmint]

The ME carriers are in for a rude awakening when hiring picks up here in the US. They'll have a tough time getting much more than RJ FO's if they don't fix QOL

Two questions for you....

Aren't RJ FO's what most majors/nationals in the US hire?

I don't believe RJ F/O's are as bad to hire as you make them sound....after all, you were one once, it appears.

Have you ever even personally worked for a ME carrier or a foreign carrier?
(Just so I can know your credibility score)


But Yes, I do hope you are right and they do have a tough time getting FO's because that means my pay and benefits package will continue to improve so that more qualified applicants will be attracted.

 

[fletch717]

Varmint, what do mean by "getting on the wrong side of the man?" I am exploring the EK option as my position in the SWA/AT merger hasn't gone well for me.

 

[Varmint]

Varmint, what do mean by "getting on the wrong side of the man?" I am exploring the EK option as my position in the SWA/AT merger hasn't gone well for me.

I think what FV meant was don't annoy the sheikh (who also runs the company). If you do what your supposed to, follow the rules, and don't bitch about their country in front of them you will be fine.

I would definitely recommend checking the place out.....just make sure that the whole family (if you have a wife and kids) will be happy here first....bring them out to explore the place. If they aren't happy and onboard you will be miserable. I am very happy and not planning on returning to the rat race in the US unless I absolutely have to.

 

[Dumb Pilot]

I think what FV meant was don't annoy the sheikh (who also runs the company). If you do what your supposed to, follow the rules, and don't bitch about their country in front of them you will be fine..

It is a sheikh over there and it is a so and so-san over here, its all the same. The trick to happiness in any job abroad is to show up at your checking in time and do your flight as professionally as you can, when you arrive go have a beer and don't get involved with their internal politics, you are not going to change the place.

 

[fletch717]

Thanks, no kids just a wife. She's on board. I'm not into politics. Attitude determines the altitude. I just want to see the world and have fun. If I have to go back to the right seat I'd rather do it in a triple 7 going some place new and cool

 

[HA25]

Two questions for you....

Aren't RJ FO's what most majors/nationals in the US hire?

no, it's usually RJ captains, or FO's (Former captains) at non-shed, or other smaller airlines Allegiant, Frontier, etc..

I don't believe RJ F/O's are as bad to hire as you make them sound....after all, you were one once, it appears.

they're great, but they usually lack experience and haven't been proven as captains... it's usually a good idea to get someone who's made it in the left seat at a 50 seat airline flying domestic before you take them to fly all over the world and oceanic not to mention make their first left seat a A320, 767 or bigger.. There are some RJ FO's Im sure hired at legacy airlines but they're very few are are probably VERY well connected or of the right gender.

Have you ever even personally worked for a ME carrier or a foreign carrier?
(Just so I can know your credibility score)

I personally have not, BUT.. a very close friend is at Qatar, and while I currently don't know anyone at EK, my class mate at HAL and two others I know (both now at UAL) have told me much about the job. Moreover, I've flown in and out of the ME, including DBX with another carrier and met a few crews socially and chatted about work rules, and QOL. It's not personal experience, but I trust these sources better than the internet.

But Yes, I do hope you are right and they do have a tough time getting FO's because that means my pay and benefits package will continue to improve so that more qualified applicants will be attracted.

And that is my point... they'll have to pay a lot better.. Closer to the Chinese and other Asians, who themselves are not having an easy time recruiting.

 

[fareview]

Posting authoritatively about the QOL at EK because you have a close friend at Qatar and have been to Dubai....is well...

...oh never mind

"The Man" refers to the firm/ie the country, the company etc.... Which all ends at the same doorstep.

fv

 

[sat74]

no, it's usually RJ captains, or FO's (Former captains) at non-shed, or other smaller airlines Allegiant, Frontier, etc..



they're great, but they usually lack experience and haven't been proven as captains... it's usually a good idea to get someone who's made it in the left seat at a 50 seat airline flying domestic before you take them to fly all over the world and oceanic not to mention make their first left seat a A320, 767 or bigger..

This is a ridiculous assertion and most myopic! Outside of America (for some I know it's hard to think outside of our borders) many pilots start as cadets and progress up the left seat LONG before their counterparts in the USA do! There is zero data to suggest those who don't fly for crap wages at the regional level in the right seat for years and years are any less experienced than a guy who gers hired into a 737/A320/330 etc. Many EK new hire's first jet was a 737 or similar, and they do just fine.

 

[Varmint]

no, it's usually RJ captains, or FO's (Former captains) at non-shed, or other smaller airlines Allegiant, Frontier, etc..



they're great, but they usually lack experience and haven't been proven as captains... it's usually a good idea to get someone who's made it in the left seat at a 50 seat airline flying domestic before you take them to fly all over the world and oceanic not to mention make their first left seat a A320, 767 or bigger.. There are some RJ FO's Im sure hired at legacy airlines but they're very few are are probably VERY well connected or of the right gender.

Proven as Captains? How many permanent FO's do you know at regionals or any other airline that are stuck in the right seat because they are not able to prove their ability as a Captain? I don't know any. Becoming a captain is more of a seniority issue than a stupidity issue at most airlines. In the last weak hiring wave, I knew plenty of FO's who bailed for bigger and better equipment while senior regional captains who were making mediocre "big" bucks chose to stay rather than risk a career move to the bottom of a seniority list during an uncertain hiring wave.

I personally have not, BUT.. a very close friend is at Qatar, and while I currently don't know anyone at EK, my class mate at HAL and two others I know (both now at UAL) have told me much about the job. Moreover, I've flown in and out of the ME, including DBX with another carrier and met a few crews socially and chatted about work rules, and QOL. It's not personal experience, but I trust these sources better than the internet.

And that is my point... they'll have to pay a lot better.. Closer to the Chinese and other Asians, who themselves are not having an easy time recruiting.

I fly around the world and have met and spoken with a lot of crews also. I have also been to Tehran but don't claim to know the idiosyncrasies of the airlines in Iran from conversations with their crews. There is TONS of research information put on the internet by very experienced normal people like us who are involved directly with companies. If I wanted to come work at HAL the first place I would come is here to get a gauge from many sources as to what is happening there. I would rather do that than trust someone who was at a place years ago and may have been disgruntled or forced to leave for reasons you will never be aware of.

Also, the guys you know may have been here in the ME when some cuts were made during the economic downturn and that could have annoyed them. I also believe that, if that is the case, what they fail to realize is that those cuts or changes to the contract here in the ME pale in comparison to the unilateral gutting of contracts by bankruptcy judges in the US.

 

[Green]

Thanks, no kids just a wife. She's on board. I'm not into politics. Attitude determines the altitude. I just want to see the world and have fun. If I have to go back to the right seat I'd rather do it in a triple 7 going some place new and cool

Try to keep your seniority number back home if you can. Working for Emirates is fun but I sure wouldn't want to spend 25-35 years here. It's a good place to wait out a furlough or save some money the last 10 years of your career. Some can enjoy a career here but others might struggle.

Dubai can get old. You can only go to the mall so many times. Everything and I mean everything here is based on commerce. It costs money to go to the park. Some people love it others go crazy...Just make sure you do your homework before giving up a SWA number.

I've been happy here but I have an escape route lined up if things go south. Oh and be prepared to discover that all pilots from the USA are worthless aviators. We can't follow SOP's, don't follow proper RT, and are generally poor aircraft operators...lol You need a thick skin!