30 year Career: US Legacies vs Emirates/Qatar/Ethiad

[fareview]

Lots of guys in their 30's also.

fv

 

[the turtle]

If I stay out here another ten yrs (mid 40's now) one less worry that I have is being able to purchase health ins and a relatively fair rate, and with pre-exisiting conditions. That weighted heavily on me before....not so much now, thanks to the affordable care act.

 

[thepotato232]

For my part, I worked a bit off and on in Africa since the RJ furlough, and only recently landed my current gig in mainland China. Now with a few ticks of the clock left before the big Three-Oh and just finding my first grey hairs in the mirror, I confess I don't really know what I would do if the big guys back in the States called. The prospect of coming home in time to hit the fabled hiring boom and sitting pretty near the top of a major's list in twenty years is a tempting one, but I've seen a LOT of pilots better and smarter than me fall into that trap only to wind up on the street for the better part of a decade. For now, my company's treating me right, I'm picking up the language, and life is pretty good.

With as much dumb luck as it's taken for me to get as far as I have, I'm hesitant to plan as far ahead as thirty years. As it stands, I've got to agree with fareview's sentiment that my worst day as an expat was better than my best day in the regionals.

...well, more exciting, at least. And with a much bigger paycheck to show for it.

 

[Dumb Pilot]

I confess I don't really know what I would do if the big guys back in the States called. The prospect of coming home in time to hit the fabled hiring boom and sitting pretty near the top of a major's list in twenty years is a tempting one, but I've seen a LOT of pilots better and smarter than me fall into that trap only to wind up on the street for the better part of a decade.

I don't envy your position the P, you are indeed at an age where it would be a logical career move to go back since you have time to climb the latter still, provided the predicted upswing of the industry will give you enough distance from the furlough fodder area of the seniority list. When you get that call, it will indeed be a very difficult decision to make.

For me it is a lot easier decision to make because at 48, that ship sailed.

Most I believe will end p commuting from Asia when the kids move stateside. Boeing just released a report re-stating Asia's needs for new pilots (link below ) to 186,500 by 2030. That is very good for all of us expats.

If you are 35-40.... Well that's just 50 shades of grey

Me...gonna ride this gig and take it for everything I can ... And continue to enjoy myself.

Good luck

Respectfully,
fv
ps My worst day as an expat pilot was better than any day at a regional

:beer:

 

[WYOMINGPILOT]

If I stay out here another ten yrs (mid 40's now) one less worry that I have is being able to purchase health ins and a relatively fair rate, and with pre-exisiting conditions. That weighted heavily on me before....not so much now, thanks to the affordable care act.

Good Luck with that if Romney is elected and gets it repealed.

 

[the turtle]

wow that didn't take long...just over two days

impressive

 

[Freight Dog]

36 years old... I'd love to go back, but for the life of me, how do you escape the golden handcuffs? To make matters "worse", wife loves it abroad.

 

[Varmint]

Dubai soon new int'l hub for Qantas European operations

SYDNEY, AUSTRALIA, 6th September 2012: Emirates and Qantas today announced a new global aviation partnership that will give customers a seamless international and Australian network, exclusive frequent flyer benefits and world‐class travel experiences.

Under the agreement signed this morning by Emirates President Tim Clark and Qantas CEO Alan Joyce, Qantas will move its hub for European flights from Singapore to Dubai and enter an extensive commercial relationship with Emirates.
The 10-year codesharing partnership is enhanced by integrated network collaboration with coordinated pricing, sales and scheduling as well as a benefits sharing model. Neither airline will take equity in the other.

The partnership will see Qantas, along with anchor tenant Emirates, as the only other airline operating at Dubai International’s Terminal 3. The two airlines will jointly offer 98 weekly services between Australia and the global gateway city of Dubai including four daily A380 flights. As the largest international carrier, Emirates' extensive route network provides Qantas customers with one-stop access to more than 90 destinations in Europe, the Middle East, Africa and West Asia.

In addition, Qantas will launch a daily A380 service from both Sydney and Melbourne to London via Dubai for a combined unprecedented seven daily A380 flights to London Heathrow. Qantas will be the first Australasian carrier to operate scheduled services to Dubai, delivering an additional 900 seats daily from Melbourne and Sydney. This will further accelerate the number of Australasian passengers travelling through Dubai which grew by 26.3% in the first half of 2012.

For Emirates customers it will open up Qantas’ Australian domestic network of more than 50 destinations and nearly 5,000 flights per week. The carriers will also coordinate their respective trans-Tasman services between Australia and New Zealand with Emirates offering improved schedules for flights to Christchurch and Auckland – including the introduction of Emirates’ daily A380 services on the Melbourne-Auckland route in October.

Emirates and Qantas frequent flyer agreements will be linked, giving customers expanded opportunities to earn and redeem points, with reciprocal access to tier status benefits including end-to-end recognition of customers, lounge access, priority check-in and boarding as well as other exclusive services.

“The time was right for developing a long term, future forward partnership with Qantas, the iconic Australian airline,” said Tim Clark, President of Emirates. “Since our first flights began in 1996, Australia has long been a popular destination for Emirates leisure and business travellers, making it one of the top three destinations in our network.” “By establishing this partnership we are providing our passengers with additional connectivity in Australia and the region and the ability to utilise enhanced frequent flyer benefits and have access to premium lounges for an exceptional travel experience.”

Emirates and Qantas will work together to ensure a seamless customer experience, including mutual lounge access, shared use of Emirates’ unique dedicated A380 facility slated to open in early 2013 in Dubai, coordinated baggage allowances and a chauffeur service for premium customers.

Qantas Group CEO Alan Joyce said the partnership would deliver unprecedented benefits to Qantas customers and mark a decisive step forward in the Group’s strategy. “Emirates is the ideal partner for Qantas,” Mr Joyce said. “It has a wonderful brand, a modern fleet, an uncompromising approach to quality and it flies to the A‐list of international destinations.

“As the world’s biggest international airline, with a network that perfectly complements our own, Emirates will help us give our customers across Australia a dramatically expanded range of travel options. “Together with Emirates, Qantas will provide a unique ‘one stop’ hub service, as well as a deeply integrated frequent flyer and customer proposition.

“The partnership delivers on all four pillars of the Qantas Group’s international strategy: it will see us fly to the global gateway city of Dubai, provide some of the world’s best travel experiences through both Qantas and Emirates, improve our position in Asia through better timed flights and, crucially, help build a strong Qantas International business for the long term, he added.”

The airlines will submit applications for authorisation to the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC) and other relevant regulatory authorities, in order to begin commercial planning. Subject to regulatory approvals, it is anticipated that the partnership arrangements will take effect in April 2013.

 

[cameltoad]

I'm afraid Dumb Pilot and Freight Dog are right. I went to USAir in 07. Retirement age changed and I got furloughed 8 months later. I spent 3 years abroad as a A-320 Ca. bonus, the family loved it. Finally I was told to come back or be dropped, nice. Now after being back one year the good part has been I live in base and only fly about 20 hrs. a month, the bad is I am now 48 years old, the ugly is having burned thru what I saved I am now going in dept make 1/3 what I made abroad, and I just don't have the years to wait for "better things are just over the horizon"
Any thoughts where to take 1600hrs. of A-320 PIC time?
Cheers

 

[cameltoad]

I meant to say debt

 

[Freight Dog]

Did you burn your bridges in China? I believe they have the highest paid A320 captains in the world. They also have a deal where they'll hire you as A330 captain if you have A320 PIC time.

Additionally, Qatar Airways and Etihad hire direct entry captains into A320.

Life is too short to spend it in the seniority rat race if you're an experienced pilot.

 

[typhoonpilot]

I'm afraid Dumb Pilot and Freight Dog are right. I went to USAir in 07. Retirement age changed and I got furloughed 8 months later. I spent 3 years abroad as a A-320 Ca. bonus, the family loved it. Finally I was told to come back or be dropped, nice. Now after being back one year the good part has been I live in base and only fly about 20 hrs. a month, the bad is I am now 48 years old, the ugly is having burned thru what I saved I am now going in dept make 1/3 what I made abroad, and I just don't have the years to wait for "better things are just over the horizon"
Any thoughts where to take 1600hrs. of A-320 PIC time?
Cheers

In no particular order:

Etihad
Air Arabia
Qatar
SilkAir
Air Asia
China ( lots )
Tanzania ( new start-up )
Japan
Emirates ( as an F.O. )


I'm sure I'm missing some.


TP

 

[Golden Falcon]

live to work or work to live??.....A senior wide body capt or a junior narrow body FO at any USA company will probably have a much better life style... it seems seniority has little to do with QOL at most foreign carriers...while one might progress to wide body capt quite rapidly..(or more so than in USA) is the schedule and back to back regional night turns worth it? That's an individual decision....big money in China big issues to go along with it...research and talk to experienced folks at the airline you are considering not the honeymooner new joiners...TC! good luck...

 

[Dumb Pilot]

There are companies in the expat market that have low QOL, substandard T&C'S and draconian work rules for sure, but not all of them, even in the same market (such as China for example) QOL is very different from airline to airline, due diligence is required when researching your target market and airline, I would add that your research should be more about talking to pilots working there that are in a stage of their lives that is similar to yours (similar age, marital status, similar family situations) I see satisfaction levels that vary widely depending on age and marital status. There are good jobs out there that are very good alternatives to those that have gotten beaten down to a pulp in furlough fodder territory.

 

[WYOMINGPILOT]

Any thoughts where to take 1600hrs. of A-320 PIC time?
Cheers

Wow, I envy you. 500+ hour PIC pilots in the A-320 are the highest sought after commodity right now in the Ex-Pat world. There are literally 25 contracts out there you could work right now. You have to decide what motivates you. If it is money then China is the place. Many contracts are paying 20K per month not including overtime. If time off is your main motivation then Korean Air A-320 transition to A-330 is one of the best deals going for commuting Ex Pat pilots. Air Japan also offers one of the best commuting contracts available if not the best in the Ex Pat world. If you are seeking job security and career progression then Etihad should be near the top of your list. Lots of good QOL contracts in Singapore ie Silk Air, Tiger and Jet Star. If you go to China do your research thoroughly. If your adventurous try a new country every 3 years. Best of Luck!

 

[macdu]

I am back in China after getting recalled to my old bankrupt major airline. Being on reserve at the bottom of the list with a two leg commute just wasn't going to cut it. At my age there was no way I was going to upgrade either so I cut my losses.
If you have an agreeable family situation to the expat life why burden yourself with the states. It's very true there is a wide variance of lifestyle between certain jobs and countries. Do your homework and cross your fingers.
Here in China it's a bit of a wild card. I think Japan and most recently encouraging news of some training cultural changes at Korean with a rumor of Air Canada taking over the training there. I have not confirmed that but if true could make life there much easier.

 

[cameltoad]

No, I did not burn my bridge in China, my issue was with the CAAC or more exactly the medical division. To all that might go to China learn this from me. I have or have never had any medical issues, but my physical size confounded the Chinese. Plus to make matters worse a couple of Chinese Capts. had heart attacks while I was there, in the CAAC wisdom they told their doctors that the next time a doc. signs off a pilot who has a prob. he goes to jail,,,this is very typical of how the Chinese do things.
As I mentioned I had no medical problems but at 6'6" and 300lbs they just couldn't believe there was nothing wrong with me. So every 6 months even though their medical is amazingly thorough, I always had to do additional testing to prove I would not keel over dead. MRI scans, MIBI tests, etc. But when an ultrasound was requested for no reason than curiosity I said no and came home. Hoping to try Etihad or Korean,,,and yes currently losing weight.

 

[cameltoad]

Slight correction to my last thread, not an ultrasound, I did several of those and no I was not pregnant. It was an angiogram that was requested, that means cutting into your femoral artery, running a tube to your heart and squirting dye and making an image, mind you all the other test, MIBI scan, MRI, ultrasound, Bruce protocol stress test, showed NO cardiac abnormality or blockage of any kind. BTY, it is not unheard of people having adverse effects up to dying from angiograms,,,guess I'm just a wus but this is the kind of thing you can run into abroad, trust me I was there 2 years and I know firsthand of several expat Capts. having these kind of unheard-of-in -the-US issues abroad.
Don't get me wrong, living and working abroad can be an amazing experience but you will have to up your game and you very well might have to deal with issues as bizarre as mine.

 

[WYOMINGPILOT]

Yes I can back up your claims of outrageous tests in China going on currently. The latest fad is an ultrasound on the neck of the cartoid artery. Any blockage detected requires a heart CT scan where a contrast agent with a slightly radioactive dye is used and high speed images like an MRI tube are taken of your heart and cardiovascular system. The CT scan because of the dye carries a risk of 1/1000 of developing cancer and should only be performed once every 5 years. It seems the CAAC Docs have taken a total "CYA" type medical screening posture before they will sign off on any medicals with heart issues. Gall bladder sludge and kidney stones are other highly disqualifying tests they frequently find. Do yourself a favor and do a full body ultrasound scan before coming to China seeking employment. You can only count on employment for 6 months at a time. It is like running the Gauntlet, they will eventually break you down and knock you off. Overall great cash, good commuting options, lots of time off and some excellent aircraft and flying but not a long term secure gig. If you can survive 2 contracts though you can probably retire and bedone with the rat race.

 

[macdu]

Agreed, the medical here has got way out of hand. The Chinese are well known for knee-jerk reaction to events here and some recent medical issues with a very few pilots is driving this lunacy. If you are even close to being outside their size, weight, and bmi indexes you are already at a disadvantage at the medical. They will find something wrong with you. As was stated in an earlier post, the doc's are now gun shy to let any remote issue slip by for fear of losing the coveted party job and position.
It will start with, "you need another test it's just routine". Then you fail that test. Then they pull you from the line. Then the pay stops. Then you go home.
If the AME'S in the U.S. used the same methods as the Chinese do for flight physicals I am serious when I say half the pilots would be grounded in the U.S.!