2nd and 3rd year at SWA

[waveflyer]

I'd agree with most of that Dan- but growing up under the poverty level and not eating for a few days at a time every month or two- and seeing how the need to make money kept my mother away from us when we needed her- I do not separate the W-2 and the quality of parenthood- it depends on what money means to you- if it's an ego trip that'll be as negative as you say- but its also freedom if you're wise with it- and the more I make per day- the more freedom I have to be that father/brother/son/friend- you see? If I can ramp up and easily afford the vacation that gives me a hundred memories, that's good -no? And a primary cause in most divorces are finances- now that's a glass house- and swa pilots certainly are no better than anyone else there... But if you have the right woman and are wise- making $$ is a very good thing for a family-

And Dan- you're basically asking what came first- chicken or egg? I can tell you having been at a commuter, a legacy, 135, a big regional, a national, and now swa- 6 airline gigs- and an upclose look at most airlines in the country-2 things surprised me- 1- swa actually does do a better job at 90% of the operation. Our guys actually get hot when they see a tamper in Vegas only jogging over-(!) And 2- how much my friends and peers at other spots feel the need to UNSOLICITED criticize southwest.
It is amazing.
So on FI- you might be right- but you know what? I defend swa, bc it's twice as good as the best place I've worked- and I'm a guy who made 6figures at a legacy before and don't have any regrets or hard on's for my former employer-and really I defend it bc I'm just tired of hearing the digs-
Almost every other airline's mgmt actively screwed their pilot's - I constantly hear valid complaints from all of my peers at every airline and then they criticize us when I'm just trying to tell them about my day like they just did. It's like they hate that I'm not in the trenches with them fighting management-

Sorry- but there must be some objectivity-
We may start it occasionally on FI- but I guarantee every swa pilot hears digs on swa in their personal life WAY more than they ever throw out.

 

[slaquer5]

I watched those guys give it their all and go above/beyond for my entire time at FL. I seriously doubt that will change when they go to WN.

IMHO, Southwest is getting a good group.

Brother I agree, I think we will all work well together. It is not Dans place to be throwing threats at SWA from the AT pilots. Dan has alot of issues w/ SWA and would like nothing more then to see us fall into hard times.

 

[Dan Roman]

I'd agree with most of that Dan- but growing up under the poverty level and not eating for a few days at a time every month or two- and seeing how the need to make money kept my mother away from us when we needed her- I do not separate the W-2 and the quality of parenthood- it depends on what money means to you- if it's an ego trip that'll be as negative as you say- but its also freedom if you're wise with it- and the more I make per day- the more freedom I have to be that father/brother/son/friend- you see? If I can ramp up and easily afford the vacation that gives me a hundred memories, that's good -no? And a primary cause in most divorces are finances- now that's a glass house- and swa pilots certainly are no better than anyone else there... But if you have the right woman and are wise- making $$ is a very good thing for a family-

And Dan- you're basically asking what came first- chicken or egg? I can tell you having been at a commuter, a legacy, 135, a big regional, a national, and now swa- 6 airline gigs- and an upclose look at most airlines in the country-2 things surprised me- 1- swa actually does do a better job at 90% of the operation. Our guys actually get hot when they see a tamper in Vegas only jogging over-(!) And 2- how much my friends and peers at other spots feel the need to UNSOLICITED criticize southwest.
It is amazing.
So on FI- you might be right- but you know what? I defend swa, bc it's twice as good as the best place I've worked- and I'm a guy who made 6figures at a legacy before and don't have any regrets or hard on's for my former employer-and really I defend it bc I'm just tired of hearing the digs-
Almost every other airline's mgmt actively screwed their pilot's - I constantly hear valid complaints from all of my peers at every airline and then they criticize us when I'm just trying to tell them about my day like they just did. It's like they hate that I'm not in the trenches with them fighting management-

Sorry- but there must be some objectivity-
We may start it occasionally on FI- but I guarantee every swa pilot hears digs on swa in their personal life WAY more than they ever throw out.

Good post Wave. While you raise a valid point about poverty, what I find ludicrous is someone making $200,000 a year arguing with someone making $150,000 a year. Once you get to certain income level it's personal choices that count, not comparing yourself to someone else.

I may sound like I am blasting SWA, I'm not, you guys are very good at flying 737's domestically (however you do still have a few that taxi like Danica Patrick!). My position is that it doesn't matter who a pilot flies for, all airlines have a lot of good pilots and a few not so good ones.

 

[Dan Roman]

Brother I agree, I think we will all work well together. It is not Dans place to be throwing threats at SWA from the AT pilots. Dan has alot of issues w/ SWA and would like nothing more then to see us fall into hard times.

Slaquer I think your are guilty of making up your mind before you read what I have to say.

 

[Fubijaakr]

From what I can see, the SWA bashing is a result of....you guys do more boasting on here than anyone...much more important than the size of your W2, your seniority or the name painted on the side of your airplane.

Amen. I genuinely like SWA and SWA pilots...until they start waving their pay checks around and puff out their chests like a bunch of bantam roosters.

It reminds me of the UAL guys in 1992 and look where they are now. This industry is just a bit too fluid to stand on the bow yelling "I'm the King of the World!"

P.S. Thank you SWAPA for setting the standard on what 737 pilots SHOULD be paid.

 

[waveflyer]

When's Alaska alpa going to help that rate out?
(not flame actually)

 

[scoreboardII]

When is any airline pilot group going to start towing the line...

 

[RobZerbe]

From what I can see, the SWA bashing is a result of.....

Dan

Certain posters *cough* start giving ppl a rough ride on this forum for even thinking of applying to SWA.

Let's be completely frank: the Southwest bashing on this forum is visceral and personally motivated. i won't attempt to speak to the nature of that motivation, but the emotional foundation is intuitively obvious to the most casual of observers.

The "SWA bashing" (as you put it) is the work of a handful who wrap themselves in the cloak of anonymity while claiming the righteousness of a disinterested third party. It isn't a credible platform and the entertainment value is beyond stale.

 

[Linedriver]

Dan

Certain posters *cough* start giving ppl a rough ride on this forum for even thinking of applying to SWA.

Let's be completely frank: the Southwest bashing on this forum is visceral and personally motivated. i won't attempt to speak to the nature of that motivation, but the emotional foundation is intuitively obvious to the most casual of observers.

The "SWA bashing" (as you put it) is the work of a handful who wrap themselves in the cloak of anonymity while claiming the righteousness of a disinterested third party. It isn't a credible platform and the entertainment value is beyond stale.

I agree.

I never understood why anyone bashes ANY airline. We are all of similar personalities, albeit competitive, but that should be a healthy spirit of competition.

All work is noble and there are several good airlines out there. I hope everyone does well and we push this industry to the next level, whether they fly an orange plane domestically or a red tail internationally.

One thing is certain; the success or failure of ANY airline is not directly attributable to the greatness or failure of just one pilot. Furthermore, management is going to manage their airline the way they see fit, regardless of the union and it's desires. Other than being professional and proficient, don't fool yourself into thinking you have any bearing on where your particular airline is headed. Just like everyone else, you are along for the ride.

You guys need to appreciate your brother aviators, wish them well in good times and buy them a beer in the bad.

Cheers!

 

[waveflyer]

I'm right there with you on most of what you said-

One thing is certain; the success or failure of ANY airline is not directly attributable to the greatness or failure of just one pilot. Furthermore, management is going to manage their airline the way they see fit, regardless of the union and it's desires. Other than being professional and proficient, don't fool yourself into thinking you have any bearing on where your particular airline is headed. Just like everyone else, you are along for the ride.

^^^^^^^^but this, at swa^^^^^^??

I can't believe the above- outside of being apathetic and homogenous would drive me personally crazy, I was going to quit vs live like that- we are led at swa and asked to be leaders- that as pilots, our apathy towards fellow employees and customers can really hurt the bottom line and culture- And on the flipside, if we do extra for our customers when we can, and are down to earth and enjoyable and show care for the people we work with and the pax who pay us- that can win customers and job security-
There might be anonymity in numbers, but our success is very much dependent on what we ALL do- and there is a customer service and leadership role that pilots can play that shouldn't be minimized. Sure, 1 individual pilot can give the min and get away with it- but all of flight ops is just a bunch of individuals either doing the min or going the extra mile-

But like I said- there isn't a legacy I'd give my leadership skills to all the time.
Most airlines, including my last employer- I wouldn't go the extra mile- it'll just be rewarded with stolen pensions- but if you're treated and led as well as southwest pilots are- you should dedicate yourself a bit more and care a bit more- otherwise you lose credibility.