2nd and 3rd year at SWA

[slaquer5]

Also, you just took on a bunch more employees that are not exactly feeling the LUV that you guys do,

O really so Lear, Ty,PLC, ect are coming over pissed and angry. I am sure they appreciate your fighting for there cause and letting SWA know how they really feel when they come over.

Anything else you want to add as to what they are going to do when they come to SWA beside lawsuits?

 

[Dan Roman]

You guys sure get upset if anyone says anything about SWA that you don't agree with. This is an open forum for people from anywhere in the aviation spectrum to voice an opinion. Listening to someone who looks at something from a different point of view is usually a sign of intelligence. You can learn a lot from perspectives other than your own, even if they are wrong or you don't like what they say.

 

[75M]

O really so Lear, Ty,PLC, ect are coming over pissed and angry. I am sure they appreciate your fighting for there cause and letting SWA know how they really feel when they come over.

Anything else you want to add as to what they are going to do when they come to SWA beside lawsuits?

I watched those guys give it their all and go above/beyond for my entire time at FL. I seriously doubt that will change when they go to WN.

IMHO, Southwest is getting a good group.

 

[SWA Bubba]

You guys sure get upset if anyone says anything about SWA that you don't agree with. This is an open forum for people from anywhere in the aviation spectrum to voice an opinion. Listening to someone who looks at something from a different point of view is usually a sign of intelligence. You can learn a lot from perspectives other than your own, even if they are wrong or you don't like what they say.

Hey Dan,

You're right that people can learn from other perspectives other than their own. I wholeheartedly agree with that. And of course, this IS an open forum. But the majority of those "other perspectives" you referred to on this forum (not all, of course, but an azzload of 'em) were little more than thinly-disguised SWA bashing. Good God, just look at the "SWA techno challenged" thread started recently. Luckytohaveajob threw up something like 30 friggin' posts in a row, each essentially a one-liner saying how much he thinks Southwest sucks. All of them random and spiteful, with 98% of the "facts" listed patently false. What exactly am I supposed to learn from HIS perspective? What did you learn, Dan?

Even the post you made to Slaquer took a subtle jab, in that we should expect lawsuits and that there won't be any "luv." First, what's that got to do with anything on a thread about 2nd and 3rd year pay at SWA? Every damn thread that has any thing to to with SWA (questions about interview process, bidding, etc) gets turned into "Southwest blows," normally before the first page is over. I tell you what -I- get from most of these "perspectives." I learned that when some people get on an anonymous forum, they turn into complete azzholes, and that some people are either jealous, or have some other reason to hate SWA, and can't stop themselves from lashing out every chance they get.

Sure, not everyone is like that. There IS legitimate and constructive criticism out there. And most of the time, you fit into that category. But that's the minority. And second, to directly answer your assertion, I don't think there's gonna' be any lawsuits. I predict that in a few years, we'll ALL be feeling the luv, and that SWA-AAI will go down as one of the smoothest pilot integrations in history. Some of the threads lately have been Airtran guys getting a little excited about the transition and asking about what to expect, bidding strategies, how to maximize the paycheck, etc. That's good, don't you think? At least that's what they are until a random Delta, Alaska, or United guy hijacks the thread and turns it into the usual anti-SWA crapfest. THAT's certainly enlightening and helpful to all.

Whatever. Certainly we have hotheads here, and guys with little or no filter when responding to slights, but even YOU have to admit that Southwest garners more unsolicited attacks, cheap-shots, and random hate on this Forum than every other airline combined.

Bubba

 

[Dan Roman]

Actually I think luckytohaveajob went off his meds! From what I can see, the SWA bashing is a result of....
you guys do more boasting on here than anyone, you can't go around saying SWA rules and everyone else sucks, or ALPA sucks, or we are going to kick everyone's ass, etc. and not expect a backlash. SWA is a very good airline. It's certainly not everyone's first choice, but no airline is. Personally I would rather be a FO at my airline than #1 at SWA. But that doesn't mean I think my airline is better than anyone else's.

My take is how successful of a career you have is decided by how good your life is AWAY from your airline job. What kind of husband, father or friend you are and how much you enjoy your life is much more important than the size of your W2, your seniority or the name painted on the side of your airplane.

 

[waveflyer]

I'd agree with most of that Dan- but growing up under the poverty level and not eating for a few days at a time every month or two- and seeing how the need to make money kept my mother away from us when we needed her- I do not separate the W-2 and the quality of parenthood- it depends on what money means to you- if it's an ego trip that'll be as negative as you say- but its also freedom if you're wise with it- and the more I make per day- the more freedom I have to be that father/brother/son/friend- you see? If I can ramp up and easily afford the vacation that gives me a hundred memories, that's good -no? And a primary cause in most divorces are finances- now that's a glass house- and swa pilots certainly are no better than anyone else there... But if you have the right woman and are wise- making $$ is a very good thing for a family-

And Dan- you're basically asking what came first- chicken or egg? I can tell you having been at a commuter, a legacy, 135, a big regional, a national, and now swa- 6 airline gigs- and an upclose look at most airlines in the country-2 things surprised me- 1- swa actually does do a better job at 90% of the operation. Our guys actually get hot when they see a tamper in Vegas only jogging over-(!) And 2- how much my friends and peers at other spots feel the need to UNSOLICITED criticize southwest.
It is amazing.
So on FI- you might be right- but you know what? I defend swa, bc it's twice as good as the best place I've worked- and I'm a guy who made 6figures at a legacy before and don't have any regrets or hard on's for my former employer-and really I defend it bc I'm just tired of hearing the digs-
Almost every other airline's mgmt actively screwed their pilot's - I constantly hear valid complaints from all of my peers at every airline and then they criticize us when I'm just trying to tell them about my day like they just did. It's like they hate that I'm not in the trenches with them fighting management-

Sorry- but there must be some objectivity-
We may start it occasionally on FI- but I guarantee every swa pilot hears digs on swa in their personal life WAY more than they ever throw out.

 

[slaquer5]

I watched those guys give it their all and go above/beyond for my entire time at FL. I seriously doubt that will change when they go to WN.

IMHO, Southwest is getting a good group.

Brother I agree, I think we will all work well together. It is not Dans place to be throwing threats at SWA from the AT pilots. Dan has alot of issues w/ SWA and would like nothing more then to see us fall into hard times.

 

[Dan Roman]

I'd agree with most of that Dan- but growing up under the poverty level and not eating for a few days at a time every month or two- and seeing how the need to make money kept my mother away from us when we needed her- I do not separate the W-2 and the quality of parenthood- it depends on what money means to you- if it's an ego trip that'll be as negative as you say- but its also freedom if you're wise with it- and the more I make per day- the more freedom I have to be that father/brother/son/friend- you see? If I can ramp up and easily afford the vacation that gives me a hundred memories, that's good -no? And a primary cause in most divorces are finances- now that's a glass house- and swa pilots certainly are no better than anyone else there... But if you have the right woman and are wise- making $$ is a very good thing for a family-

And Dan- you're basically asking what came first- chicken or egg? I can tell you having been at a commuter, a legacy, 135, a big regional, a national, and now swa- 6 airline gigs- and an upclose look at most airlines in the country-2 things surprised me- 1- swa actually does do a better job at 90% of the operation. Our guys actually get hot when they see a tamper in Vegas only jogging over-(!) And 2- how much my friends and peers at other spots feel the need to UNSOLICITED criticize southwest.
It is amazing.
So on FI- you might be right- but you know what? I defend swa, bc it's twice as good as the best place I've worked- and I'm a guy who made 6figures at a legacy before and don't have any regrets or hard on's for my former employer-and really I defend it bc I'm just tired of hearing the digs-
Almost every other airline's mgmt actively screwed their pilot's - I constantly hear valid complaints from all of my peers at every airline and then they criticize us when I'm just trying to tell them about my day like they just did. It's like they hate that I'm not in the trenches with them fighting management-

Sorry- but there must be some objectivity-
We may start it occasionally on FI- but I guarantee every swa pilot hears digs on swa in their personal life WAY more than they ever throw out.

Good post Wave. While you raise a valid point about poverty, what I find ludicrous is someone making $200,000 a year arguing with someone making $150,000 a year. Once you get to certain income level it's personal choices that count, not comparing yourself to someone else.

I may sound like I am blasting SWA, I'm not, you guys are very good at flying 737's domestically (however you do still have a few that taxi like Danica Patrick!). My position is that it doesn't matter who a pilot flies for, all airlines have a lot of good pilots and a few not so good ones.

 

[Dan Roman]

Brother I agree, I think we will all work well together. It is not Dans place to be throwing threats at SWA from the AT pilots. Dan has alot of issues w/ SWA and would like nothing more then to see us fall into hard times.

Slaquer I think your are guilty of making up your mind before you read what I have to say.

 

[Fubijaakr]

From what I can see, the SWA bashing is a result of....you guys do more boasting on here than anyone...much more important than the size of your W2, your seniority or the name painted on the side of your airplane.

Amen. I genuinely like SWA and SWA pilots...until they start waving their pay checks around and puff out their chests like a bunch of bantam roosters.

It reminds me of the UAL guys in 1992 and look where they are now. This industry is just a bit too fluid to stand on the bow yelling "I'm the King of the World!"

P.S. Thank you SWAPA for setting the standard on what 737 pilots SHOULD be paid.

 

[waveflyer]

When's Alaska alpa going to help that rate out?
(not flame actually)

 

[scoreboardII]

When is any airline pilot group going to start towing the line...

 

[RobZerbe]

From what I can see, the SWA bashing is a result of.....

Dan

Certain posters *cough* start giving ppl a rough ride on this forum for even thinking of applying to SWA.

Let's be completely frank: the Southwest bashing on this forum is visceral and personally motivated. i won't attempt to speak to the nature of that motivation, but the emotional foundation is intuitively obvious to the most casual of observers.

The "SWA bashing" (as you put it) is the work of a handful who wrap themselves in the cloak of anonymity while claiming the righteousness of a disinterested third party. It isn't a credible platform and the entertainment value is beyond stale.

 

[Linedriver]

Dan

Certain posters *cough* start giving ppl a rough ride on this forum for even thinking of applying to SWA.

Let's be completely frank: the Southwest bashing on this forum is visceral and personally motivated. i won't attempt to speak to the nature of that motivation, but the emotional foundation is intuitively obvious to the most casual of observers.

The "SWA bashing" (as you put it) is the work of a handful who wrap themselves in the cloak of anonymity while claiming the righteousness of a disinterested third party. It isn't a credible platform and the entertainment value is beyond stale.

I agree.

I never understood why anyone bashes ANY airline. We are all of similar personalities, albeit competitive, but that should be a healthy spirit of competition.

All work is noble and there are several good airlines out there. I hope everyone does well and we push this industry to the next level, whether they fly an orange plane domestically or a red tail internationally.

One thing is certain; the success or failure of ANY airline is not directly attributable to the greatness or failure of just one pilot. Furthermore, management is going to manage their airline the way they see fit, regardless of the union and it's desires. Other than being professional and proficient, don't fool yourself into thinking you have any bearing on where your particular airline is headed. Just like everyone else, you are along for the ride.

You guys need to appreciate your brother aviators, wish them well in good times and buy them a beer in the bad.

Cheers!

 

[waveflyer]

I'm right there with you on most of what you said-

One thing is certain; the success or failure of ANY airline is not directly attributable to the greatness or failure of just one pilot. Furthermore, management is going to manage their airline the way they see fit, regardless of the union and it's desires. Other than being professional and proficient, don't fool yourself into thinking you have any bearing on where your particular airline is headed. Just like everyone else, you are along for the ride.

^^^^^^^^but this, at swa^^^^^^??

I can't believe the above- outside of being apathetic and homogenous would drive me personally crazy, I was going to quit vs live like that- we are led at swa and asked to be leaders- that as pilots, our apathy towards fellow employees and customers can really hurt the bottom line and culture- And on the flipside, if we do extra for our customers when we can, and are down to earth and enjoyable and show care for the people we work with and the pax who pay us- that can win customers and job security-
There might be anonymity in numbers, but our success is very much dependent on what we ALL do- and there is a customer service and leadership role that pilots can play that shouldn't be minimized. Sure, 1 individual pilot can give the min and get away with it- but all of flight ops is just a bunch of individuals either doing the min or going the extra mile-

But like I said- there isn't a legacy I'd give my leadership skills to all the time.
Most airlines, including my last employer- I wouldn't go the extra mile- it'll just be rewarded with stolen pensions- but if you're treated and led as well as southwest pilots are- you should dedicate yourself a bit more and care a bit more- otherwise you lose credibility.