2013 L-CAL System Bid Out

[PBRstreetgang]

Well,
The reason that HR wants control of hiring is simple, they have a profile that they want to bring online. Pilots who are easily swayed into thinking a certain way are the preferred applicant. Being military trained, while an asset in life makes one the very applicant that they don't want, you see, you have principals and were chosen for your character and leadership principals by the service. The airlines will do anything to prevent a strike and/or labor strife and hiring their "kind of guy" will insure that goal, think stacking the deck. Fortunately this will only work for awhile. The worm is turning and for that I hope we as a group will capitalize on that, but as long as there are guys like HelloNewman on the list we will be struggling to maintain status quo.

 

[goahead]

Cool thanks

 

[bizicmo]

feb 2014

That statement is not 100% accurate.

 

[Flopgut]

This bid's effective date is the day SLI comes out

 

[Andy]

This bid dies once SLI is complete. If you're in training prior to SLI completion, you will get that seat. If not, you're still in your current seat.

From 23 Jan notification:

​

Effective Date – first day of the February 2014 bid period unless superseded as a result of the Seniority List Integration by Vacancy/Displacement Bidding.

But wait! Read para 3 of Overview:

​

Following the completion of the (SLI), pilot staffing will transition from Training
Assignment Bids (TAB) to Vacancy and/or Displacement Bids. Those processes
are described in more detail in Section 8 of the new United Pilot Agreement
(UPA). There are provisions contained within this System Bid which have been
developed in conjunction with the Joint Implementation Team in order to allow
for that transition to occur in an orderly manner at the appropriate time. You are
highly encouraged to read this entire Pilot Bulletin I-13-024 in order to
familiarize yourself with those provisions before submitting your bids.

From I-13-024:

At the time of the
Seniority List Integration, pilots who have not been awarded a Training Assignment Bid
award resulting from this or previous System Bids will be considered to be in their
currently staffed position for purposes of bidding on future Vacancy and/or
Displacement bids.​

​

As an example, you are a IAH-777-FO today and are awarded on this
System Bid the position of IAH-737-CA. By mid July, TAB’s should have been awarded​

through October. Should SLI occur in mid July and you have not been awarded a TAB award,
then your position for subsequent Vacancy and/or Displacement Awards would be IAH-777-​

FO not IAH-737-CA.

 

[Flopgut]

No merger would have been quite a ride for the CAL side. This sort of bid twice a year for a 5 thousand pilot group? Wow. Who knows now.

 

[taxicabdriver]

Yeah the cal side got screwed with this merger in my opinion

 

[eaglesview]

No merger would have been quite a ride for the CAL side. This sort of bid twice a year for a 5 thousand pilot group? Wow. Who knows now.

I think CAL would have done what everyother airline including CAL itself has one and that is cycle. As a 98 hire in the left seat you got there at the right time as I did at UAL in 91. We were not smart we were lucky. Hopefully we will all continue to move up.

As for twice a year it will be interesting to see how this is handled moving forward. During times of upward movement United put out bids monthly.

 

[Andy]

This bid dies once SLI is complete. If you're in training prior to SLI completion, you will get that seat. If not, you're still in your current seat.

I was incorrect on this statement. If you are assigned a training date prior to end of SLI, you will get your seat. (TAB award)

Yeah the cal side got screwed with this merger in my opinion

LOL! The CEO and 95% of senior management are ex-Cons so you're getting screwed by the management CAL brought to the table. The same management that went to Tilton looking for a merge when Tilton was about to do the deed with Parker at Airways.

Alex Karras best described your, my, and every other line pilot's importance to this (or any other) airline. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKRma7PDW10

 

[Flopgut]

LOL! The CEO and 95% of senior management are ex-Cons so you're getting screwed by the management CAL brought to the table. The same management that went to Tilton looking for a merge when Tilton was about to do the deed with Parker at Airways.

Only somewhat correct. smisek was put in place because Continental's larry kellner didn't want anything to do with United after he took a good look at the full disclosure. It's starting to look like Larry was right, and that we are not going to get another good CEO for a very long time.

 

[Flopgut]

I think CAL would have done what everyother airline including CAL itself has one and that is cycle. As a 98 hire in the left seat you got there at the right time as I did at UAL in 91. We were not smart we were lucky. Hopefully we will all continue to move up.

As for twice a year it will be interesting to see how this is handled moving forward. During times of upward movement United put out bids monthly.

From my perspective, I think CAL learned things in their two BKs that UAL has not. Now that I spend time in UAL hubs and see the operation up close, I don't see a lot to be enthused about.

And I agree that things cycle. In fact, that's what I'm pointing out in this last bid from the CAL side. This is what the CAL cycle looked like since those BKs, and it's going to be brought to an unfortunate end.

 

[eaglesview]

From my perspective, I think CAL learned things in their two BKs that UAL has not. Now that I spend time in UAL hubs and see the operation up close, I don't see a lot to be enthused about.

And I agree that things cycle. In fact, that's what I'm pointing out in this last bid from the CAL side. This is what the CAL cycle looked like since those BKs, and it's going to be brought to an unfortunate end.

OK you can have your opinion. I'd take ORD over IAH any day. NRT over GUM any day, SFO over EWR any day. So where does this get us ....no where. WE now have all of those hubs so press on. We have the same reaction you are having at CO hubs. I laugh every time I park in EWR or IAH as the first guide man signal is opposite of what I know they want. (outsourced ramp, you get what you pay for) These are just differences in the way we operate that we are not used to....that's it. CO and UA have not stayed in business this long because they were clueless. Both side know the basics.

As for your second paragragh, it's not a cycle till you hit the other end. Just ask the SW fellas.

 

[Flopgut]

OK you can have your opinion. I'd take ORD over IAH any day. NRT over GUM any day, SFO over EWR any day. So where does this get us ....no where. WE now have all of those hubs so press on. We have the same reaction you are having at CO hubs. I laugh every time I park in EWR or IAH as the first guide man signal is opposite of what I know they want. (outsourced ramp, you get what you pay for) These are just differences in the way we operate that we are not used to....that's it. CO and UA have not stayed in business this long because they were clueless. Both side know the basics.

As for your second paragragh, it's not a cycle till you hit the other end. Just ask the SW fellas.

I know, I know. You are right, and I would do good to adapt that same perspective. I'm just reading this bid and I realize this is it for CAL pilots. I know L-UAL guys are looking forward to bidding these positions with whatever new seniority they get in SLI. My fellow CAL pilots are looking forward to....? What? What did United bring to the party? You'd take ORD over IAH?! Really? Out of IAH I go all over South America and the Caribbean , and it's a blast. I did ORD trips last week and I overnighted in BUF and BDL. It sucked... GUM does the island hopper. I've heard that base is the best flying you'll ever do. Is NRT even a base? SFO and EWR might be a close comparison... Idk. The good stuff UAL did bring isn't going to have much for openings. There's all sorts of new stuff in this merger, IF you are L-UAL. There is no future meaningful career expectation that a CAL pilot would not have had, or had sooner, absent this merger. Not that I can see. Can you show me where I'm wrong?

 

[densoo]

There's all sorts of new stuff in this merger, IF you are L-UAL. There is no future meaningful career expectation that a CAL pilot would not have had, or had sooner, absent this merger.

Exactly. Please tell me you're on the SLI committee.

 

[Andy]

Only somewhat correct. smisek was put in place because Continental's larry kellner didn't want anything to do with United after he took a good look at the full disclosure. It's starting to look like Larry was right, and that we are not going to get another good CEO for a very long time.

ROTFLMAO! That's a lot of cognitive dissonance going on there. Smisek was hand picked by Gordo and joined CAL in 1995; he's been at Continental longer than you!

As far as the merger goes, Kellner pretty much made that decision when he opted to join the Star Alliance when Continental got frozen out of SkyTeam after the Delta/Northwest merger. Continental was no longer needed; the combined Delta airlines' route structure didn't have any huge gaps that Continental filled. I wrote about that in 2008:

That didn't last long. Market cap = price/share x shares outstanding. Using today's closing prices:
CAL= $16.04 x 98.00M = $1.57B
UAUA = $13.95 x 118.99M = $1.66B

Does this mean that, as of today, UAUA is back in the driver's seat? Market cap is not a measure of who's in charge of a merger.

You're also ignoring the fact that due to the DAL/NWA merger, CAL is going to be effectively frozen out of SkyTeam. In order for them to continue to expand internationally, they need to join the Star Alliance or One World.
Ask Kellner or any of the rest of CAL senior management how much they're concerned over their future in SkyTeam.

The question was when United was ready to merge; Tilton lined up two suitors to choose from; Continental and USAirways. Now that USAirways is by itself and will get frozen out of the Star Alliance (that should happen within the next couple of years), Parker's scrambling for a partner in AMR because it's the only major alliance remaining that will take USAirways after their departure from Star.

By the way, it's funny how your opinion's changed since 2008:

Andy and Mountain Freak have the situation correctly characterized if you ask this CAL pilot. We've got scabs, they've got scabs. We've got a few strikers left and so do they. The rest of us need to keep our heads on straight and this would be a good deal for all of us. However, I think UAL is going to entertain a USAir deal first. JMHO. That ain't going to be good for CAL.

Quasi-legitimate Gordon Bethune stated CAL/UAL was a "checkmate". I'm inclined to believe him on that. I'm afraid that re-regulation and the currently permissive political climate are pressuring our greed wracked leaders into whatever deal they can make to get themselves paid. (of course oil as well) Hence UAL/LCC. If we want govt to step in [re-reg] we need our union leader to start moving that direction. Prater needs to start talking fuel price rationing for airlines and to also point out that the FAA can't oversee airlines the size they are now, and that they are less equal to the task when airlines are larger. (I personally don't believe that, but it's a good talking point) Here's what I think is going to happen after the May ALPA Exec Board meeting: Prater changes his tune or he's out. JMHO.

Flopgut, I'm also confused by your statement that nothing good has happened for Continental pilots. Every time I hear an ex-Con say that, I ask if he's staying at better hotels since the merge. 'Yes'. Do I need to point out a myriad of other examples that you're also ignoring? Take two steps back and do an unbiased assessment of now vs three years ago.

Does LUAL have warts? Sure. So does LCAL; don't try to shrug them off as beauty marks.