2004 Hiring at Net Jets

[bartpearl]

Word is that due to 91k, the company will have to hire upwards of 450 to cover the new rest/duty requirements. IF sales get back ontrack, that figure could conceivably go higher, I suppose......

Not sure where that is coming from. I was at company recurrent last month. The Chief Pilot said they were projecting hiring 150 next year. He said nothing about 91k increasing the need for pilots, and 91k impacts were definately discussed. Also, by current staffing policies, we are still 250+ pilots overstrength.

If you think about it, the only major impact of 91k is in the duty/rest requirements is in reserve duty. In other words, any time we are on standby, it has to be for a specific 14 hour period. Does it limit their options for calling people off standby? Yes. But how much? Would it be worth the cost of significantly increasing the number of pilots? At current pay levels maybe, but when the contract is completed and pay levels go up, it probably won't be cost effective. (Yes, it seems to me like the contract will pass when Osama and Sadam convert to Judaism, but it will happen eventually.)

Bottom line, I think hiring 450 next year is grossly wishful thinking.

 

[abenaki]

Interesting, Bart.....

1) When I was in recurrent in May, we were, according to the CP, 150 over-staffed.....Now, 5 months later with no hiring between then and now and not an insignificant number of pilots who have resigned, we are TWO-HUNDRED AND FIFTY over-staffed.......Huh?

My question remains....NJA can't forecast hiring needs better than within 150-250 pilots? Say what? I think the person who "over-staffed" NJA by 150-250 should be fired......

Gee, could this be management speak during contract negotiations to spread dis-information and fear? Personally, I don't know the CP except for his visits to recurrent every year so I have no real basis for an opinion of him, but there are many veterans here who think little of him and have zero respect for him.

2) It's my understanding that due to the 91k duty and rest requirements that there will have to be more crews to cover those issues that will be brought up.....The specific dynamics of it all, I don't have a handle on. But, if duty and rest periods become more well defined, then crews can't be on perpetual standby so I think there will have to be more crews to cover the gaps that will be created by the new requirements....

I think you also have to keep in mind that 91k will not just apply to NJA but all the fracs thereby leveling the playing field.....everyone is going to have to play by the same set of rules, so I suppose that the cost issues become irrelevant in terms of the competitive angle though it is certain that crewing costs will rise, but they will rise in proportion to the other operators.....


And they aren't asking for updated applications for the fun of it.....So, who knows? Just have to wait and see.....

You take care out there!

 

[ductleak]

GRIZ -- thanks -- update?

Griz,

I am one of the ones in the pool waiting on an interview and have been contacted for an update on the application that was submitted just over a year ago by a buddy of mine that is a NJA Capt. I was also told that NJA was possibly going to start interviewing in the late fall of this year -- around November / December. So, hey, it would be great to hear what you are told in company rec. Take care and thanks for keeping us all up to date.

Regards!

 

[bartpearl]

Interesting, Bart.....

1) When I was in recurrent in May, we were, according to the CP, 150 over-staffed.....Now, 5 months later with no hiring between then and now and not an insignificant number of pilots who have resigned, we are TWO-HUNDRED AND FIFTY over-staffed.......Huh?

2) It's my understanding that due to the 91k duty and rest requirements that there will have to be more crews to cover those issues that will be brought up.....

Here's part of the discrepency. Not being one to take what they say at face value, I do a little digging. The normal staffing guidelines are 4.5 pilots per aircraft. I have been given this figure by more than one management type at different times. At recurrent, I asked the question..."how many aircraft does NJA have?" The answer from the CP was 306.

Liking my math to be simple, I round the manning up to 5 pilots per aircraft. 5 X 306 = 1530. The last seniority list had something like 1825 pilots. Take off 50 for management, and you get 1775. 1775 - 1530 = 245 (OK, I was 5 off, but that was based on an earlier seniority list).

The overstrength has been in existance in varying degrees for about two years. In my humble and worthless opinion it exists because the company does not plan effectively, shoots from the hip, and thus misses the mark 9 times out of 10.

As far as 91k goes, I can remember when management was spreading doom and gloom about 7&7 geometrically increasing the need for pilots. (I believe that was when we were negotiating the permanent 7&7 language.) Whereas there was a small increase in need, the math just did not support their case. I think we have a similar case here, and I discount most of it, especially during negotiations.

Yes we have some flights going at odd times, but the majority of them occur at relatively normal times during the day. I just don't the 91k rest rules causing a massive impact.

 

[FatesPawn]

I just don't the 91k rest rules causing a massive impact.

I agree with you that 91k won't cause a "massive" impact, but it will cause some additional hiring perhaps an extra .5 crews per plane. Who knows. 91k reduces the company's flexibility. Remember how valuable flexibility is to them. They want us to work 8/6.

 

[Just Peachy]

hiring..

letter of recomendation from an NJA pilot in good standing with the company.....

Hell, didnt know there were any NJA pilots not in good standing as mgmt gets rid of the ones that are not. Except for the latest reinstatement.... of which we need more of.

The union is slowly growing teeth.....

 

[35to1]

As far as the "overcrewing" is concerned, I just cant believe that this company requires 4.5 PILOTS per plane. That makes just over 2 CREWS per craft.

At both airlines I used to work for, we were at 4 to 5 CREWS per plane. That makes 8 to 10 pilots per plane.

NJA is not overstaffed! They will however be understaffed as soon as the hiring comes full circle, and I think I see it coming unless this contract is worthwhile!

 

[FL450]

"60 pilots were present today just ripe for that type of tactic. I found it particularly telling that the next statement he made was that "there's no reason to worry about a furlough" (Griz)

Griz, make my day and tell me that JP's comment was followed by 60 fits of laughter!!!!

Gotta love it!

 

[Just Peachy]

Hiring...........

Griz Its amazing to me how the number keeps changing... I went to GS recurrent two months ago and Peters said about 300 were going to be hired.....

Ahhh... the Bull**CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** tactics..

 

[Daveflier]

Can a current Net Jets pilot please post the proper procedure for furnishing a letter of recommendation from a Net Jets pilot. i.e.-who in HR should they be addressed to-thanks

 

[Live4flyng]

Dave

It used to be an easy process. All you had to do was have the Captain you know hand carry it to the pilot recruiters and you would be interviewed. That pleasure no longer exists.

I would recommend making three copies of the letter. Send the first one in with your resume, the second one in with your application, and hand carry the third to your interview just in case.

Good Luck!

 

[Pugnacious G]

Daveflier,

This is who I always addressed the recomendations that I wrote to. Of course as stated above I walked it in person along with the applicant's resume. (That used to get you to the top of the pile but those days are over).

Jerry McDermand,
Director of Flight Crew Resources
NetJets Aviation, Inc.
4111 Bridgeway Ave.
Columbus OH, 43219

 

[.92wshn1.92]

As far as the "overcrewing" is concerned, I just cant believe that this company requires 4.5 PILOTS per plane. That makes just over 2 CREWS per craft.

At both airlines I used to work for, we were at 4 to 5 CREWS per plane. That makes 8 to 10 pilots per plane.

NJA is not overstaffed! They will however be understaffed as soon as the hiring comes full circle, and I think I see it coming unless this contract is worthwhile!

Don't be a tool. Netjets is a frac not an airline. At the airlines when you finish your duty day you give up your plane to another crew, that plane sees at least 2 crews a day, maybe 3. At Netjets, the crew stays with the same plane until the end of your work week, barring taking it to a service station or other circumstances that cause you to lose your plane. Therefore, you really only need 2 crews per plane plus a little extra to cover the slop/overlap of crews. I know the X is a maintenance pig, so the fact that 30%+ of them at any given moment are at the service center is not a good point of reference, but if in the rest of the fleet only 10% of them are at the service center, which is probably a fair assumption then that would cover the slop/overlapping of crews.