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2004 Hiring at Net Jets

  • Thread starter Thread starter abenaki
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abenaki

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 21, 2002
Posts
133
Folks, this is just one of those rumors circulating among the pilots at NJA, but it's recent and came from a company recurrent and I thought that for those of you hoping to apply and get on here that it may offer you some encouragement....and it makes some sense.

Word is that due to 91k, the company will have to hire upwards of 450 to cover the new rest/duty requirements. IF sales get back ontrack, that figure could conceivably go higher, I suppose......

The "bad news" is that they have something on the order of 500 applicants who have been intereviewed and "approved", but who knows how many of them are still waiting in the pool for the phone call versus having gone on to something else.

So, it would appear that there will be some movement here come the first of the year or so.

Just wanted to pass that on......
 
Abenaki,

Thanks for the good news. Regardless of the line in front, growth could be just around the corner - let's hope!!!!!


P.S. I noted that you were an RJ pilot previously. How do you like Netjets and flying the Citation X vs. flying for a commuter? Has anything surprised you positively or negatively? Appreciate any comments given I am interested in fractional flying myself - you can PM if needed.
 
Hi Heavy Set,

I assume you are referring to the Whale!?!?!?!?

In reference to your questions......

Flying for the "commuter/regional/whatever" (but CVG to DAL to Mexico City was NOT commuter work) was definitely easier work....no doubt about that from my personal perspective. You have fuelers, 121 disptach releases, baggage handlers, flight attendants, gate people, etc.....to do all the stuff that we handle at NJA. So, you can get on board, turn left and strap in and let everyone handle everything for you at the RJ job. That's nice.....makes it easy......significantly less daily operational job stress. Great pilot/FA comraderie that we don't have much opportunity to develop over here simply by virtue of not having a pilot base and pilot lounge......

But, to me, it was BOORRRRRING.....Many of the same places over and over and over again. And the union/management thing never got good though I guess it's better now though from what I'm reading it may not stay that way for long. (Obviously, I'm talking about the DAL/COMAIR thing.....you know, concessions, whipsawing, MEC vs. MEC, and all of that that isn't good for anyone including the company(s).)

I love the challenge of making things work at NJA.....you're definitely you're own boss out on the road in many respects. We do have a very good dispatch department with trained and qualified dispatchers who are very helpful. However, it's a much more free-wheeling op in terms of managing your own flights. The variety is great.....I've been as far as Anchorage to the west and as far east as St. Maarten.....Lots of mountain airports like Aspen, Telluride, Vail and Jackson Hole. Some of those airports are truly challenging. Lots of decision making in terms of performance considerations. I think it is more of a flying challenge than the RJ operation under 121. Some people like that....some don't. Dropping into Aspen is always fun and Telluride is....well, Telluride is just one of those experiences you have to have to believe.

I truly enjoy not knowing where I'm going though I have to admit that sometimes now knowing the "WHEN" can get tiring. The variations in schedules during the day or night can wear you out but there is usually some rest during a tour so it evens out for the most part.

The RJ versus the "X"? I thought the RJ handled great. Very crisp controls.....an honest machine. Kind of a dog above about FL250 with the engines that Comair bought. A nice cockpit....plenty of elbow room. A great avionics and panel suite. An intelligent design. Still had to wear headsets like the DC's though for the noise.....

The "X" doesn't handle as crisply though the newer ones are better but still not as nice as the RJ. That 40 degree sweep adds some challenges in gusty crosswinds and it is possible to scrape a wing-tip. But those big engines (for it's size......the latest models have increased thrust that really makes the thing rock off the runway) and that wing allow for pretty amazing peformance. While a Lear will beat it for intitial climb, once the X gets to about FL310, it's pretty much gone.....It will climb through the thirties at a solid 1500FPM or better while accelerating from .82 or so up to .88 or better IN THE CLIMB.

Very seldom do I cruise below FL 410 so it's easy to get above traffic, go direct and avoid weather. No sweat getting it to 430, 450 and 470 if you need it for range. And it's pretty quiet. Cruise is generally .87 right up to .92 though it's tough to get that above 410. Below 410, you often have to pull it back out of the cruise detents to keep it from blasting through MMO.

The cockpit of the X is not as good as the RJ......nowhere near the room, of course, but that doesn't really bother me much except on the longer flights......Excellent avionics with dual everything including the FMS's which we only had one of on the RJ's. We even have a tv screen in the cockpit that can uplink text weather and radar sweeps for anywhere you need.....a great little tool. The airplanes are clean and shiny for the most part.....well cared for and maintained though the X is a bit of a hanger queen.

For the most part, the pax are easy to get along with and are pretty much low maintenance. Seldom do we carry more than two or three people at a whack so the baggage/catering thing isn't a big deal. And about half the time we're ferrying so there isn't ANYONE to worry about except making sure your partner gets his crew food to keep him/her happy.....and the crew food is generally excellent. As are the hotels.

I am hopeful that this next contract and Part 91K will address some of the more fatiguing aspects of the schedules that we keep as well as some sorely needed increases in compensation and other important issues.....just have to wait and see.

Oh, and for me, no more commuting, no more crash pad, airport cr, and all the associated expenses....That's a huge increase for me in many areas of quality of life and expenses.

That cover it for you??? Let me know.....And best wishes to you...God bless....
 
Last edited:
Hi!

I would like to know how the 91K is affecting the fractionals. I'm currently flying under 135, and it seems like 91K is very similar to 135, although there are changes to 135. Which of them affect us, if any, I haven't been able to figure out-haven't had time to sit down and look at anything

CLiff
GRB
 
Abenaki,

Thanks for the great response - very thorough. Hope to see you on the line someday when hiring ramps up...


Cheers
 
Been reading the various posts on possible hiring in the new year & know this is probably a long shot, but......
can anyone PM me the name of the hiring manager/CP who interviews/selects pilots for Netjets for any of the types?
I did write in to "pilot recruitment" earlier this year to be told that they were "done for the year" & yes, I know about the pool of 500 (so what's new?!!).
As any seasoned job hunter already knows, HR/ recruitment are the LAST people you want to send a resume - their purpose in life is to screen you out! It is the person who will most likely be your immediate boss that gets the most action - I know from experience.
So, any ideas out there please?
I have a little corporate experience, having flown the Hawker a few years ago plus I have a 737NG type rating, international experience, solid customer service in two different industries and 7200+ TT. I would have thought a good mix to maybe warrant an interview, if & when NJA starts to hire again.
Thanks in advance for any info on names & addresses (P.S. I have already looked @ the website but it just says "pilot recruitment".

ALH

FAA ATP - B737, B757, B767
IAA ATPL - B737-200, B737-300 thru 737-800
CAA ATPL - B737-200, HS-748
Flown: all of the above plus HS125-700; many SMEL
 
HS748 - produced in the UK by Hawker Siddeley - twin engined (2 RR Dart engines) turboprop with about 50 some odd seats. Production ceased at least 20 years ago, with a couple hundred produced. Many still in operation in 3rd world. Air Illinois operated 2 of them in the late 70's or early 80's, if memory serves me right.

If you want to see what one looks like, go to www.airliners.net, and put the type in under the search engine.
 
b757driver said:
Been reading the various posts on possible hiring in the new year & know this is probably a long shot, but......
can anyone PM me the name of the hiring manager/CP who interviews/selects pilots for Netjets for any of the types?
I did write in to "pilot recruitment" earlier this year to be told that they were "done for the year" & yes, I know about the pool of 500 (so what's new?!!).
As any seasoned job hunter already knows, HR/ recruitment are the LAST people you want to send a resume - their purpose in life is to screen you out! It is the person who will most likely be your immediate boss that gets the most action - I know from experience.
So, any ideas out there please?
I have a little corporate experience, having flown the Hawker a few years ago plus I have a 737NG type rating, international experience, solid customer service in two different industries and 7200+ TT. I would have thought a good mix to maybe warrant an interview, if & when NJA starts to hire again.
Thanks in advance for any info on names & addresses (P.S. I have already looked @ the website but it just says "pilot recruitment".

ALH

FAA ATP - B737, B757, B767
IAA ATPL - B737-200, B737-300 thru 737-800
CAA ATPL - B737-200, HS-748
Flown: all of the above plus HS125-700; many SMEL


unless you personally know someone that can walk your resume in, that's the only way to do it.
 
Thanks guys, I guess achievements/personal merit do not count anymore! By the way, NetJets Europe were advertising in Flight International a few weeks ago. I presume they are a subsidiary company & I might have more chance there. Gee, now you have to go overseas to get a job!

By the way, the HS748 was also known as an Avro and was the British equivalent of a Convair 580. The Queen's Flight used to operate the military version - the Andover until they got a BAe-146. My first airline had a fleet of them, including cargo versions and I have over 500 hours on them. Great workhorse but past its time. You might still find a few cargo versions up in Canada.

About 12 yeras ago I had fun ferry one from London Gatwick to the Great Lakes area of Canada with stopovers in Shetland Isles, Reykavik, Sonderstrom Fjord & Iqualuit!
 
great news

This is a positive bit of news. I was told by a manager that they are looking at starting interviews this Nov. or Dec. if approved. That is what they want to do but, they are waiting on final approval. I was also told that they sent out update cards to people and that only about 50% replied. Those that replied will be used as the pool to interview from. I do not think that it is 500 though... Hang in there! I am! I am thrilled to be an applicant! Take care and keep the lines of communication open!

Good day!
 
abenaki said:
Word is that due to 91k, the company will have to hire upwards of 450 to cover the new rest/duty requirements. IF sales get back ontrack, that figure could conceivably go higher, I suppose......

Not sure where that is coming from. I was at company recurrent last month. The Chief Pilot said they were projecting hiring 150 next year. He said nothing about 91k increasing the need for pilots, and 91k impacts were definately discussed. Also, by current staffing policies, we are still 250+ pilots overstrength.

If you think about it, the only major impact of 91k is in the duty/rest requirements is in reserve duty. In other words, any time we are on standby, it has to be for a specific 14 hour period. Does it limit their options for calling people off standby? Yes. But how much? Would it be worth the cost of significantly increasing the number of pilots? At current pay levels maybe, but when the contract is completed and pay levels go up, it probably won't be cost effective. (Yes, it seems to me like the contract will pass when Osama and Sadam convert to Judaism, but it will happen eventually.)

Bottom line, I think hiring 450 next year is grossly wishful thinking.
 
Interesting, Bart.....

1) When I was in recurrent in May, we were, according to the CP, 150 over-staffed.....Now, 5 months later with no hiring between then and now and not an insignificant number of pilots who have resigned, we are TWO-HUNDRED AND FIFTY over-staffed.......Huh?

My question remains....NJA can't forecast hiring needs better than within 150-250 pilots? Say what? I think the person who "over-staffed" NJA by 150-250 should be fired......

Gee, could this be management speak during contract negotiations to spread dis-information and fear? Personally, I don't know the CP except for his visits to recurrent every year so I have no real basis for an opinion of him, but there are many veterans here who think little of him and have zero respect for him.

2) It's my understanding that due to the 91k duty and rest requirements that there will have to be more crews to cover those issues that will be brought up.....The specific dynamics of it all, I don't have a handle on. But, if duty and rest periods become more well defined, then crews can't be on perpetual standby so I think there will have to be more crews to cover the gaps that will be created by the new requirements....

I think you also have to keep in mind that 91k will not just apply to NJA but all the fracs thereby leveling the playing field.....everyone is going to have to play by the same set of rules, so I suppose that the cost issues become irrelevant in terms of the competitive angle though it is certain that crewing costs will rise, but they will rise in proportion to the other operators.....


And they aren't asking for updated applications for the fun of it.....So, who knows? Just have to wait and see.....

You take care out there!
 
GRIZ -- thanks -- update?

Griz,

I am one of the ones in the pool waiting on an interview and have been contacted for an update on the application that was submitted just over a year ago by a buddy of mine that is a NJA Capt. I was also told that NJA was possibly going to start interviewing in the late fall of this year -- around November / December. So, hey, it would be great to hear what you are told in company rec. Take care and thanks for keeping us all up to date.

Regards!
 
abenaki said:
Interesting, Bart.....

1) When I was in recurrent in May, we were, according to the CP, 150 over-staffed.....Now, 5 months later with no hiring between then and now and not an insignificant number of pilots who have resigned, we are TWO-HUNDRED AND FIFTY over-staffed.......Huh?

2) It's my understanding that due to the 91k duty and rest requirements that there will have to be more crews to cover those issues that will be brought up.....

Here's part of the discrepency. Not being one to take what they say at face value, I do a little digging. The normal staffing guidelines are 4.5 pilots per aircraft. I have been given this figure by more than one management type at different times. At recurrent, I asked the question..."how many aircraft does NJA have?" The answer from the CP was 306.

Liking my math to be simple, I round the manning up to 5 pilots per aircraft. 5 X 306 = 1530. The last seniority list had something like 1825 pilots. Take off 50 for management, and you get 1775. 1775 - 1530 = 245 (OK, I was 5 off, but that was based on an earlier seniority list).

The overstrength has been in existance in varying degrees for about two years. In my humble and worthless opinion it exists because the company does not plan effectively, shoots from the hip, and thus misses the mark 9 times out of 10.

As far as 91k goes, I can remember when management was spreading doom and gloom about 7&7 geometrically increasing the need for pilots. (I believe that was when we were negotiating the permanent 7&7 language.) Whereas there was a small increase in need, the math just did not support their case. I think we have a similar case here, and I discount most of it, especially during negotiations.

Yes we have some flights going at odd times, but the majority of them occur at relatively normal times during the day. I just don't the 91k rest rules causing a massive impact.
 
bartpearl said:
I just don't the 91k rest rules causing a massive impact.

I agree with you that 91k won't cause a "massive" impact, but it will cause some additional hiring perhaps an extra .5 crews per plane. Who knows. 91k reduces the company's flexibility. Remember how valuable flexibility is to them. They want us to work 8/6.
 

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