20 ABX DC9 Captains Surplussed

[nitefr8dog]

While this may come to pass in the future for now it is my understanding that DHL is on the hook for the retraining costs under the ACMI. It would be very difficult for Joe & Co. to convince a judge they couldn't afford training they weren't paying for.

DHL is on the hook for funding our retirement also look where that has got us! JH and company also could not open KIX per the contract according to the union but that did not stop them. Joe will not have to convince anybody just shut the doors and file BK.!

 

[erichartmann]

DHL is on the hook for funding our retirement also look where that has got us!

Retirement funding is a very complex issue. DHL will probably have to make up the stock market losses to restore our retirement fund to the level required by the IRS. It is important to note that funding levels required by the IRS under ERISA are not the same as those required by the PBGC for a "fully funded" plan. To close the plan PBGC requires more money in the plan to insure it can meet its obligations.

JH and company also could not open KIX per the contract according to the union but that did not stop them.

If you trouble to go read the actual CBA language you will find it does not actually prohibit the company from opening the KIX domicle. That was the union's interpretation of the language based on the written word and notes or recollections from the specific negotiations sessions. The company had a different view. If you read the judge's ruling you will find he did not find the company's explaination of the written word to be credible, nor did the judge find merit in the union's view. Since neither of the parties had irrefutable evidence that the company could or could not open the domicle the judge chose to read the wording as written and base the ruling on that. The judge indicated that the the written word "argueably" gave the company the right to open the new domicle while negotiating the necessary changes applicable.

The long and the short of it is the union misjudged the strengh of its position and attempted to use the domicle issue as a lever to move the rest of the contract negotiations along. While useful, it was not a strong enough position by itself to do what the union attempted.

Joe will not have to convince anybody just shut the doors and file BK.!

It doesn't quite work that way. Joe can't shut the doors on ABX just yet. ABX, because of the DHL ACMI is the only segment of ATSG that is currently making money. Filing BK for ATSG isn't really in the cards either, because it would trigger other covenents and Joe would lose the entire company due to the debt load. Joe needs to keep ABX operating, and he needs to lower ABX's cost structure. More is in play than simply our CBA with the company.

 

[ABXbooger]

DHL is not responsible for funding ABX Air's pension plan.

The money "promised" to ABX was for SEVERENCE, not funding our pension plan, which is a responsibility of ABX Air.

 

[abxaviator]

Funding of the pension plan to certain levels is a recoverable expense under the ACMI, thus making DHL responsible separate from the severance monies.

 

[ABXbooger]

key word here is seperate. Severance should not have to be negotiated, either, just another shining example of our great managment...

 

[nitefr8dog]

Depends on how fast the DC-9's are parked. The junior 20 of the ILN based 767 F/O's are senior to the the bottom half of the DC-9 F/O's as are all of the MIA based 767 F/O's. I expect to see WARN notices to the bottom 20 or so DC-9 F/O's in the near future. The next 20 or so will get notices as the surplused DC9 CA's go through training (if they do). If not, then when the next set of notices comes some DC9 F/O's may be in a position to bump into the right seat of the 767. If that happens I expect they will sit at home on the payroll until the 767 F/O's junior to them get notices. Eventually you'll have 767 CA's moving to the right seat and anyone sitting at home with come off the payroll.

Well Eric he who knows all, once DHL parks all the aircraft ATSG/ABX will file BK. I personally do not see Joe running a training department while all the aircraft are parked and no revenue is coming in. Bottom line is no retraining! I say DHL pulls the plug Jan 1 or sooner! Please do not quote me the CBA if you read my post I said "THE UNION" I did not say I did not think ABX could open KIX dom. And per the ACMI DHL is responsible for funding our retirement while we have a contract with them.

 

[b707guy]

ABX, because of the DHL ACMI is the only segment of ATSG that is currently making money.

Can't argue yea or nay to any of your other points, but I seriously doubt that we're losing money, and I seriously doubt that Cappy is losing either. No clue about CAM, but I can hazard a guess. Although our fearless leaders year in and year out have felt the need to cry that we can't survive under our then and now current cost structure, we've made millions year in and year out when the final results became public. If we are losing money now, it's because it's being squirreled away from us using some good old fashioned recipes in the ATSG kitchen. Someone along the chain is lining their pockets, and it ain't us...

 

[ABXbooger]

In talks with HR today they said a "big announcement" was scheduled for Monday...

 

[EatinRamen]

Off the subject a little here... We at Pace Airlines just accepted delivery of a leased ABX 767-200. Of course our management doesn't say why or what it's for. Can anyone at ABX shed any light on this? Is ABX leasing a/c or is Pace "stealing" someone's flying. I'm just trying to get an idea.

 

[abxdx]

N714AX is the ACFT. I believed it was dry-leased to you folks. Probably the first of many, not all to PACE, I am sure they will spread them around. Curious, do you guys have 767's on your certificate?

Off the subject a little here... We at Pace Airlines just accepted delivery of a leased ABX 767-200. Of course our management doesn't say why or what it's for. Can anyone at ABX shed any light on this? Is ABX leasing a/c or is Pace "stealing" someone's flying. I'm just trying to get an idea.

 

[727Niteflyer]

Can't argue yea or nay to any of your other points, but I seriously doubt that we're losing money, and I seriously doubt that Cappy is losing either. No clue about CAM, but I can hazard a guess. Although our fearless leaders year in and year out have felt the need to cry that we can't survive under our then and now current cost structure, we've made millions year in and year out when the final results became public. If we are losing money now, it's because it's being squirreled away from us using some good old fashioned recipes in the ATSG kitchen. Someone along the chain is lining their pockets, and it ain't us...

cappy is making money also. in talking with alot of different abx crews at different cities and such I have come to the conclusion that most abx pilots no nothing about cappy and ati.

 

[EatinRamen]

Yeah Pace has had 757's on the certificate for over 6 years, but we just got our first 767 about a year ago. We've heard rumors that we are getting 2 more 767's in pax config.

I guess we are leasing 147 for some cargo contract out of MIA. We don't have cargo approval on our ops specs yet, but I guess that is also in the works.

 

[bukakke]

stand by for the lawsuits

 

[abxdx]

Yep. Would not be surprised to see you possibly get quite a few of our acft. We have I believe 14 going to cargo mod over the next few years and then they are going to a leasing company called CAM. They used to all fly for ABX Air.

 

[abxdx]

What will lawsuit do but speed up our demise?

stand by for the lawsuits