20 ABX DC9 Captains Surplussed

[nitefr8dog]

Depends on how fast the DC-9's are parked. The junior 20 of the ILN based 767 F/O's are senior to the the bottom half of the DC-9 F/O's as are all of the MIA based 767 F/O's. I expect to see WARN notices to the bottom 20 or so DC-9 F/O's in the near future. The next 20 or so will get notices as the surplused DC9 CA's go through training (if they do). If not, then when the next set of notices comes some DC9 F/O's may be in a position to bump into the right seat of the 767. If that happens I expect they will sit at home on the payroll until the 767 F/O's junior to them get notices. Eventually you'll have 767 CA's moving to the right seat and anyone sitting at home with come off the payroll.

Well Eric he who knows all, once DHL parks all the aircraft ATSG/ABX will file BK. I personally do not see Joe running a training department while all the aircraft are parked and no revenue is coming in. Bottom line is no retraining! I say DHL pulls the plug Jan 1 or sooner! Please do not quote me the CBA if you read my post I said "THE UNION" I did not say I did not think ABX could open KIX dom. And per the ACMI DHL is responsible for funding our retirement while we have a contract with them.

 

[b707guy]

ABX, because of the DHL ACMI is the only segment of ATSG that is currently making money.

Can't argue yea or nay to any of your other points, but I seriously doubt that we're losing money, and I seriously doubt that Cappy is losing either. No clue about CAM, but I can hazard a guess. Although our fearless leaders year in and year out have felt the need to cry that we can't survive under our then and now current cost structure, we've made millions year in and year out when the final results became public. If we are losing money now, it's because it's being squirreled away from us using some good old fashioned recipes in the ATSG kitchen. Someone along the chain is lining their pockets, and it ain't us...

 

[ABXbooger]

In talks with HR today they said a "big announcement" was scheduled for Monday...

 

[EatinRamen]

Off the subject a little here... We at Pace Airlines just accepted delivery of a leased ABX 767-200. Of course our management doesn't say why or what it's for. Can anyone at ABX shed any light on this? Is ABX leasing a/c or is Pace "stealing" someone's flying. I'm just trying to get an idea.

 

[abxdx]

N714AX is the ACFT. I believed it was dry-leased to you folks. Probably the first of many, not all to PACE, I am sure they will spread them around. Curious, do you guys have 767's on your certificate?

Off the subject a little here... We at Pace Airlines just accepted delivery of a leased ABX 767-200. Of course our management doesn't say why or what it's for. Can anyone at ABX shed any light on this? Is ABX leasing a/c or is Pace "stealing" someone's flying. I'm just trying to get an idea.

 

[727Niteflyer]

Can't argue yea or nay to any of your other points, but I seriously doubt that we're losing money, and I seriously doubt that Cappy is losing either. No clue about CAM, but I can hazard a guess. Although our fearless leaders year in and year out have felt the need to cry that we can't survive under our then and now current cost structure, we've made millions year in and year out when the final results became public. If we are losing money now, it's because it's being squirreled away from us using some good old fashioned recipes in the ATSG kitchen. Someone along the chain is lining their pockets, and it ain't us...

cappy is making money also. in talking with alot of different abx crews at different cities and such I have come to the conclusion that most abx pilots no nothing about cappy and ati.

 

[EatinRamen]

Yeah Pace has had 757's on the certificate for over 6 years, but we just got our first 767 about a year ago. We've heard rumors that we are getting 2 more 767's in pax config.

I guess we are leasing 147 for some cargo contract out of MIA. We don't have cargo approval on our ops specs yet, but I guess that is also in the works.

 

[bukakke]

stand by for the lawsuits

 

[abxdx]

Yep. Would not be surprised to see you possibly get quite a few of our acft. We have I believe 14 going to cargo mod over the next few years and then they are going to a leasing company called CAM. They used to all fly for ABX Air.

 

[abxdx]

What will lawsuit do but speed up our demise?

stand by for the lawsuits

 

[EatinRamen]

Im sorry to hear that your airplanes are being taken away. I'm one pilot not at all happy about gaining aircraft at the expense of another pilot group.

 

[727Niteflyer]

under the contract dont pilots have to go with the airplanes ?

On another thread it was explained that the pilots have to go with the airplanes.

 

[abxdx]

Not if the airline they fly for does not exist anymore.

under the contract dont pilots have to go with the airplanes ?

On another thread it was explained that the pilots have to go with the airplanes.

 

[DC-9er]

N714AX is the ACFT. I believed it was dry-leased to you folks. Probably the first of many, not all to PACE, I am sure they will spread them around. Curious, do you guys have 767's on your certificate?

Pretty sure 714AX has never flown revenue service for ABX. So that was the one aircraft that might not fall under scope.

 

[ABXbooger]

I think this was the China plane that our management used to again show how brilliant they are...

JH to his cronies: " hey, y'all let's go over and screw them Chinese into selling us a cheap airplane...yuck, yuck...they won't know what hit 'em..."

 

[erichartmann]

Well Eric he who knows all,

Never made that claim. Just think your opinion as expressed here is wrong, and gave mine. Opinions are like the redeye, everybody has one.

once DHL parks all the aircraft ATSG/ABX will file BK.

Perhaps. I think the whole place goes under if that happens and I don't think Joe wants that. He's already made a ton of money off this deal, more than enough to live very comfortably for the rest of his life. So it's not about money.

I personally do not see Joe running a training department while all the aircraft are parked and no revenue is coming in. Bottom line is no retraining! I say DHL pulls the plug Jan 1 or sooner!

First, though, DHL will park the -9's. If they haven't yet parked the 767's there will be money for retraining. Big "IF" I admit. Since the ACMI runs into 2010 there may well be money for some money for retraining even if they pull the plug in Jan '09 as part of a cancellation. I think it possible there will be people who go home and collect paychecks until their number comes up for furlough. In fact, I think that the most likely senario if DHL pulls the plug on or before Jan 1. All the -9's and the PC 767's get parked, the relatively junior 767 CA's who are needed for the right seat will go to training, everybody else not needed to fly the SF's go home, and as soon as the first former 767 CA comes out of training for the right seat everybody at home is furloughed along with the 767 F/O's who are still flying.

Please do not quote me the CBA if you read my post I said "THE UNION" I did not say I did not think ABX could open KIX dom.

The implication was there.

And per the ACMI DHL is responsible for funding our retirement while we have a contract with them.

I never said they weren't on the hook for retirement. That, after all, is part of the "C" in ACMI.

 

[erichartmann]

Can't argue yea or nay to any of your other points, but I seriously doubt that we're losing money, and I seriously doubt that Cappy is losing either. No clue about CAM, but I can hazard a guess. Although our fearless leaders year in and year out have felt the need to cry that we can't survive under our then and now current cost structure, we've made millions year in and year out when the final results became public. If we are losing money now, it's because it's being squirreled away from us using some good old fashioned recipes in the ATSG kitchen. Someone along the chain is lining their pockets, and it ain't us...

Thats based on the consolidated annual report financials. I suspect what's happening is they are showing you and Cappy as losing money within ATSG so as not to have to pay taxes and as part of the contract negotiating strategy.

 

[727Niteflyer]

ATSG will remain alive and prosperous using ATI and Cappy. I suspect that the same fate awaits ABX as did ATA. The holding company shifted all debt from North American and World to ATA and Sank it. I have a feeling thats whats gonna happen here.

 

[b707guy]

Thats based on the consolidated annual report financials.

Can you provide a link to this report, or post an excerpt? I'm a shareholder and haven't seen anything myself. Cappy's always made money, mid to high single digits as I recall (along the lines of industry typical margins, anyway), and we've posted incredible profits, well into double digits and well above industry typical numbers. The only thing that's changed in the past year is who's cooking the books.

 

[erichartmann]

Can you provide a link to this report, or post an excerpt? I'm a shareholder and haven't seen anything myself. Cappy's always made money, mid to high single digits as I recall (along the lines of industry typical margins, anyway), and we've posted incredible profits, well into double digits and well above industry typical numbers. The only thing that's changed in the past year is who's cooking the books.

Try looking under free edgar or the SEC. I took someone else's word for it, which I freely admit may have been a mistake.