2 -v- 1 (close call with a Viper)

[Sluggo_63]

Aopa

Well, since I'm a card carrying AOPA member (since 1985), a big fan of GA, a military pilot, and above all, an advocate for smart flying, I wanted to see what AOPA's Air Safety Foundation said about MOAs.

This is what I found:

...this does not prevent pilots flying under visual flight rules from traveling through MOAs. Prudent pilots will contact any flight service station within 100 miles of a MOA to find out whether or not the airspace is active before they attempt to transit the area. It's also a good idea to contact the controlling agency (either an approach control or en route center) and request advisories before entering a MOA. Better yet, it's a good idea for VFR pilots to avoid active MOAs altogether when possible unless you can be certain that the area is inactive. (emphasis mine)

They give lots of handy tools so you can follow their advice and avoid 'hot' MOAs. You can check the quasi-real time status of Special-Use-Airspace at: http://www.aopa.org/members/airports/sua.cfm

Also, the military creaded a site so you can look at your route of flight and see what SUA, low level routes you're going to come close to. It will also show you MACs and NMACs in the vicinity. The site is http://seeandavoid.org

Just be smart, and avoid hot MOAs... my $.02

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Because when I have to use my weekend, locked in the vault mission planning (and not at home or with family when I already work 12 hours a day during the week), and I invest 7-8 or more hours doing it, then my hop gets canx'd because you're trolling through the MOA... it makes me WANT to shoot your ass down!

Your attitude sir, is unprofessional.... you should know that MOA's are joint use airspace and your mission could be interupted or cancelled b/c of it. If your superiors didn't want you getting interupted then they would have you fly elseware...

Your issue is with the gov't. not the individual civilians

As a professional you should be mentally prepared for such interuptions and deal with it, with coolness... IOW professionalism... sure it might not be "right" or fair... but grandpa said life was never fair...

The enitre aviation industry didn't get up in the morning to make my or your day perfect...

I'm not exagerating either. It's 1700 on a Friday, I'm still stuck at work, and I'll be here this weekend planning for a flight on Monday which in all reality will be a .8. If you come beboppoing through the MOA... I may just trip an RA and say I never saw you (that's sarcasm for you types with no sense of humor).

There have been many times that I didn't make it home to my family for any given reason. I understand this and accept it as part of the job. If you don't like your job anymore.. then find another.. I know from expereince that the MIL puts the MIL first and family second...

Plus being a "CRJ driver" I suspect you're on an IFR flight plan 99% of the time, and thus non of this applies because even ATC has the smarts to not send traffic through.

That is right... I don't want to be flying along at FL190 or FL200 and have to respond to an RA because a civilian aircraft flying VFR is suddenly blasting through Class A because some unprofessional F-16 pilot has lost his cool and is no longer in control of his jet.... you guys give new meaning to the term air rage....


Get it Slick?

 

[cjdriver]

Because when I have to use my weekend, locked in the vault mission planning (and not at home or with family when I already work 12 hours a day during the week), and I invest 7-8 or more hours doing it, then my hop gets canx'd because you're trolling through the MOA... it makes me WANT to shoot your ass down! I'm not exagerating either. It's 1700 on a Friday, I'm still stuck at work, and I'll be here this weekend planning for a flight on Monday which in all reality will be a .8. If you come beboppoing through the MOA... I may just trip an RA and say I never saw you (that's sarcasm for you types with no sense of humor).

Plus being a "CRJ driver" I suspect you're on an IFR flight plan 99% of the time, and thus non of this applies because even ATC has the smarts to not send traffic through.

Gotta say, this made me chuckle for some reason. You do have a sense of humor, even if you weren't kidding about shooting me down. The rant on the war thing is really my pent up resentment that we haven't extracted revenge for 9/11. It really pisses me off. If you know where Bin Laden is and can loan me your armed F/A, I'll step up.

 

[Mamma]

Exactly. I'm certainly not going to think all Astra captains are morons just because one compared the legitimacy of the war in Iraq to flying through MOAs.

My point has been made. Well done McGillicutty.

 

[Bjammin]

When I see a post like this it restores my faith that the people we hire to operate our war machines have the maturity and judgement to do the right thing, always. Turning on a civilian corporate jet is not an example of that. I don't think a thinking man would categorize an entire pilot group based on the words or actions of a few.
By the way, we've wasted billions on this chicken sh!t op in Iraq, still without getting the sob that killed our neighbors. Why would I give a rat's a$$ if we spend a few more thousand so I can get through a MOA.

Thanks for that. I try my best to act in a manner that is representitive of the position that has been honored to me.

Now, all I ask is you let me do my job or training future Naval Aviaitors safely. I can't do that without you acting in the professional manner that is required from you as a civilian pilot.

In my EXPERT opinion (14 year Naval pilot and 9 year advanced tac. jet flight instructor) and that of every other military aviator on this board and AOPA is that going through an active MOA is not safe without contact with the controlling agency. I don't care that much about gas or wasting time. Those things are lousy to lose for no other reason then someones lazyness, but it's my flight's and your safety that I'm most concered with.

Please, pick up the phone and call first. If there is a big excersize going on, stay out. If no one is there then you should have a nice, warm fuzzy about flying through.

BTW, we both have opinions about the war. Don't let people that have nothing to do with that suffer because of your disheartment.

 

[SIG600]

Words, babble, and bullsht.

The original poster replied with a laugh, and was able to see the humor in my post.

You however left out the one line in my post when quoting me, that summed it all up about it being SARCASTIC, and got yourself all worked up. Nice work Sally.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

The original poster replied with a laugh, and was able to see the humor in my post.

You however left out the one line in my post when quoting me, that summed it all up about it being SARCASTIC, and got yourself all worked up. Nice work Sally.

No I quoted your entire post.... perhaps you should re-read....

Your other posts had quite the attitude... didn't realize you made the switch to wit.... I'll pay attention to the ones and zero's a bit more closely...

 

[talondriver]

The military does not own the MOA's, they are joint use.

Yeah....I bet you go offroading around the really cool rings marked on the ground in the middle of nowhere while jets are rolling in on "your vehicle".

Sure...it's joint use...but make sure you tell mom and dad you just wasted their tax money because viper flight had to terminate and drone waiting for your sorry $ss to vacate the MOA.

 

[erj-145mech]

Yeah....I bet you go offroading around the really cool rings marked on the ground in the middle of nowhere while jets are rolling in on "your vehicle".

Sure...it's joint use...but make sure you tell mom and dad you just wasted their tax money because viper flight had to terminate and drone waiting for your sorry $ss to vacate the MOA.

Get over it Slick, it ain't your airspace. And there aren't any "cool rings" on the ground, because there is no live fire there.
You can come on here and spout all the cr@p that you want to, but a fact is a fact.
When you plan a mission in a MOA, you know that there is going to be the possibility, and you plan for it. If you don't, you're a loser and have failed in your planning.
And the military has wasted more tax money than on a failed training sortie, so that is not a viable excuse on your part. Have you ever strolled through a DRMO yard and seen what the military is throwing away?

 

[SIG600]

Get over it Slick, it ain't your airspace. And there aren't any "cool rings" on the ground, because there is no live fire there.
You can come on here and spout all the cr@p that you want to, but a fact is a fact.
When you plan a mission in a MOA, you know that there is going to be the possibility, and you plan for it. If you don't, you're a loser and have failed in your planning.
And the military has wasted more tax money than on a failed training sortie, so that is not a viable excuse on your part. Have you ever strolled through a DRMO yard and seen what the military is throwing away?

Do you see any of us over at the A&P forums running our suck about stuff we know nothing about? No.

You get where I'm going with this????

Bottom line... every military aviator on here as given you good reasons to avoid an active MOA. Your only excuse for disregarding their professional advice is because "I can." I pray to God you're never in the front office of any flight myself or family are on.

 

[bagasticks]

Get over it Slick, it ain't your airspace. And there aren't any "cool rings" on the ground, because there is no live fire there.
You can come on here and spout all the cr@p that you want to, but a fact is a fact.
When you plan a mission in a MOA, you know that there is going to be the possibility, and you plan for it. If you don't, you're a loser and have failed in your planning.
And the military has wasted more tax money than on a failed training sortie, so that is not a viable excuse on your part. Have you ever strolled through a DRMO yard and seen what the military is throwing away?

I recommend that quit drinking skydrol . . .

 

[erj-145mech]

I recommend that quit drinking skydrol . . .

Bag of bones, please put your husband on here, and quit posting on his screen name, at least he has some nads, if you didn't geld him on your honeymoon.

Show some evidence where YOU own that airspace.

Put up or shut up!

You can't do it, can you?

A couple of airplane drivers that read "Soldiers of Fortunes" when you were in puberty think that they own the sky...guess again.

Now the balls in your court (except old baggy cause he ain't got none), prove your point! Show some documentation. Just because a couple of beered up O-3's say its a bad idea does not carry any weight.

 

[slacker]

I like to drive 45 mph in the left lane of the interstate -because I can.

 

[tankerswede]

Show some evidence where YOU own that airspace.

AIM 3-4-5 c. Pilots operating under VFR should exercise extreme caution while flying within a MOA when military activity is being conducted. The activity status (active/inactive) of MOAs may change frequently. Therefore, pilots should contact any FSS within 100 miles of the area to obtain accurate real-time information concerning the MOA hours of operation. Prior to entering an active MOA, pilots should contact the controlling agency for traffic advisories.

The military doesn't "own" it and that isn't the point. Don't go tooling through the hot MOA - because you can - and then gripe about the big bad military joining on your wing to see who is there and what they're doing - because they can.

Is this the part where we start arguing about the AIM not being regulatory in nature?

 

[cjdriver]

Looks like a grab for more military airspace:

http://www.aopa.org/flightplanning/articles/2008/080807powder.html