1st Qtr Results-Netjets

[wacoflyr]

gawd,... the vitriol in this thread just shot through the roof. If people were being civil before, they certainly aren't now.

 

[gret]

gawd,... the vitriol in this thread just shot through the roof. If people were being civil before, they certainly aren't now.

strange isn't it....funny how people who perceive themselves as intelligent react with fear and loathing if someone doesn't agree with them....pro union or anti union, both sides have the right to express their views....if you don't like what someone says, move on until you do and then live in your insular world

 

[B19 Flyer]

Nice isn't it... I'm an advocate of selective reading, too.

The one person blocked more than me is you.. and it's great...selective reading lets me get the truth out easier.

 

[B19 Flyer]

strange isn't it....funny how people who perceive themselves as intelligent react with fear and loathing if someone doesn't agree with them....pro union or anti union, both sides have the right to express their views....if you don't like what someone says, move on until you do and then live in your insular world

nice....

 

[netjetwife]

... I DO completely understand the time that was volunteered to try and benefit us ... There is a reason I don't volunteer. (both personal and also because then I would have to hear from guys ,like myself, who can find a negative in even the most positive) It's not uncommon for critics to admit they wouldn't do the job. And while I have my moans about NJA, ... It's the nature of the furlough beast. And a big family. There is some squabbling, but in the end members pull together -- as IBB and the Voluntary Measures showed. I THINK THE MONTHS PRECEEDING THE FURLOUGH WERE ... THE SPLIT BETWEEN US. ... I know it was only a VERY SMALL MINORITY... Alas every group has its share. Perhaps some thought they were being reassuring-- but weren't good at expressing it. Life can be ironic; I wouldn't be surprised if those same guys also participated in the Voluntary Measures and the Christmas fund. Those successes are tangible evidence of unity and a caring group. The dues refund was nice...unfortunately it lasted for maybe a week before it was spent on some bill. But I did appreciate the extra scratch. The premise was that every bit helps. Just as every extra paycheck earned during the VM allowed families to save more for a furlough. I would have made an effort to try some family fund money but the paperwork and website (atleast initially) were rather cumbersome. It is now Company managed but I'm sure the NJASAP Volunteers will help any furloughed pilot apply. It took a lot of work to get NJFF set up; the Volunteers are to be commended. And kudos to all the NJ folks who give $.

Even todays 411, after glancing at it, still seems to be fluff..But atleast todays included some more info. (although because it had nothing that seemed to pertained to myself I didn't read it thoroughly) Logically, those who did would get more out of it. At least you have the luxury of critiquing a weekly newsletter. How many frac pilots don't even get one? When I mentioned the 411 I wasn't thinking specifically of the furloughed pilots. You guys also have the Beacon which is sent to you quarterly and is written solely for your group.

But where things could have helped the most, seemed to come across as failures on some level or another.. Off the top of my head:

1)EJA.....no job opps. Although management makes decisions I can recall very little from the union besides "we're looking into it." ... And that did pay off; the announcement was made in the first edition of the Beacon. Furloughed qualifying NJ pilots get preferential interviews at EJ.

2)NJME...., seems very similar to our EJA opps. Not really substantial. Maybe the FWG just needs more time?

3)MSG board access. Although not real important to me because I read for the entertainment factor, it still was a kick in the baby makers. I can see it from both sides; I sympathize with those who miss the Crew Room and I understand there are liability and privacy concerns. For those unaware, the following areas of the NJASAP board are still accessible to furloughed pilots: their own forum, a job info section where leads are posted, the Briefing Room, and PM-ing. Far more than the frac pilots get that don't have a board at all.

4)UI....NJASAP seemed to make it more confusing than helpful. ... Some programs are inherently confusing and aren't completely clear until you go thru the process. Because Volunteers tried to help, NJ pilots will be better off if there is a future need for procedures learned this time.

5)Resigning seniority.....Goodbye to those who "thought" they were just resigning on paper. ... A tough situation, not controlled by the Union and until a recall happens no one can say exactly how it will go. I think it's discriminatory. Employees regularly move on to a better offer but other applicants aren't made to promise they won't leave.

While it is nice that accounting, state of the union etc. is being relayed through the 411's. On our end it doesn't make up for some of the gross mis-information that occurred during first months of the furlough. Especially UI and resignation. Unfortuate but far better to risk mistakes trying to help instead of doing nothing. I think the FWG has made up for it by publishing the Beacon and organizing an OutReach committee to stay in personal contact with the furloughed pilots. Luckily it's basically all smoothed out now... Stressful times do make things harder to bear. My sympathy to those still without a job.

I realize NJWIFE is the better half of a union guy. To me that's basically saying my wife knows how to fly because she's married to a pilot. ... I beg to differ. Understanding how the Union works just requires an interest in people, not specialized training. I read the 411s and follow Union events, forming my own opinions. I independently discuss issues with others and gather my own info. Being a member of FI is helpful with that. But in reality NJWIFE is obviously 100% pro NJASAP. And thats understandable given her relationship. Actually, I'm 100% pro frac industry as my signature line shows and that's because all pilots deserve a seat at the table and a vote on their career. When I began posting here my husband wasn't yet a Volunteer. I have applauded ALL pilots who stand up for themselves, their families, and the profession. I'm a strong 1108 supporter, too, and admire them for not giving up. The NJ pilotS (with family support) ARE the Union and reading the NJA contract shows how far they have come. For their past accomplishments and for setting a new standard in handling a furlough, I gladly give them due credit.

.... This was all written in as civil a response as I could. No ill will or aggression intended.. Same here and best wishes to you and your family.

While no group of volunteers/leaders is perfect, I do think most NJ pilots will find that it is beneficial to belong to a Union that: cares about their interests; has guaranteed furlough provisions in the contract like indefinite recall rights; has binding scope rules limiting sell-offs while pilots are on the street; has negotiated for them to still accrue seniority while furloughed; is maintaining weekly communication; writes articles and designs programs specifically for their group; and will be there to make sure that the recall goes smoothly. Those efforts will make a big difference for the furloughed pilots but they also provide much peace of mind to those still flying.

Standing together and helping one another is what it means to be in a Union. Kudos to NJASAP--the NJ pilots and their Association Volunteers and leaders. Without your concern and backbone none of the above would be possible, we wouldn't have a fair contract and our NJ families would be worse off. Respectfully and thankfully, NJW


To help spread the word.... Furloughed qualifying NJ pilots get preferential interviews at EJM -- no special application procedure.

 

[B19 Flyer]

While no group of volunteers/leaders is perfect, I do think most NJ pilots will find that it is beneficial to belong to a Union that: cares about their interests; has guaranteed furlough provisions in the contract like indefinite recall rights; has binding scope rules limiting sell-offs while pilots are on the street; has negotiated for them to still accrue seniority while furloughed; is maintaining weekly communication; writes articles and designs programs specifically for their group; and will be there to make sure that the recall goes smoothly. Those efforts will make a big difference for the furloughed pilots but they also provide much peace of mind to those still flying.

Standing together and helping one another is what it means to be in a Union. Kudos to NJASAP--the NJ pilots and their Association Volunteers and leaders. Without your concern and backbone none of the above would be possible, we wouldn't have a fair contract and our NJ families would be worse off. Respectfully and thankfully, NJW


To help spread the word.... Furloughed qualifying NJ pilots get preferential interviews at EJM -- no special application procedure.

Another expert opinion from you... I wonder how you would feel if you were on the bottom end of that seniortiy list suffering with those furloughed families, but your safe, aren't you?

Didn't your husband bailout of AMR when he didn't like what the union proposed?

It's easier to spew the rheroric when you are safe isn't it?

 

[wacoflyr]

It's easier to spew the rheroric when you are safe isn't it?

This might be the definition of irony. What do you think you have been doing? Is your job safe? You tell me.

 

[brokeflyer]

Owned......

 

[B19 Flyer]

This might be the definition of irony. What do you think you have been doing? Is your job safe? You tell me.

My job became safe the split second I left working for a union carrier. I've never again had to look over my shoulder when the economy grew tight knowing that if things happened the "pain" would be spread evenly rather than lopsided as in a union carrier.

I've asked this many times, and all the cowards on this board have never answered the question:

HOW MANY NON-UNION JOBS WERE SHED AT NJ BEFORE THE FURLOUGHS?

The key word being "before".

In other words, how my NJ employees lost their jobs before the union lost theirs, and how is that treating the entire company employee base fairly?


Working in a non-union carrier meant that I no longer had to worry about ANY union creating a situation where non-union employees would suffer at the hand of union employees.

It meant a fair, turmoil-free work enviorment where all employees worked together for a common mission goal rather than a union "I know it better than you so I should be paid more" atmosphere that is what NJW so much advocates.

I speak my mind here without fear that my opinions can be used against me and choose to keep my identity private. Working for a union carrier provokes fear of reprisal for all the employees in the company.

NJW openly stated that her husband bailed out of AMR when they didn't like what the union did there when they were low on the seniority list.

Now that they are safe and high on the list it's easy for her to go ahead and give her rhetoric because they can't be touched.

If they were low on the list today and in danger of being screwed like what the union was doing to them at AMR, you can bet your butt that she wouldn't be quite so loving of the union life.

After all, they bailed last time.. so it's clear she speaks from both sides of her mouth.


Oh.. and Broke...I'm not owned... nobody owns me.
I'm not union and pay no dues... I speak for myself and don't need to pay for somebody to speak for me.

 

[LAZYB]

My job became safe the split second I left working for a union carrier. I've never again had to look over my shoulder when the economy grew tight knowing that if things happened the "pain" would be spread evenly rather than lopsided as in a union carrier.

I've asked this many times, and all the cowards on this board have never answered the question:

HOW MANY NON-UNION JOBS WERE SHED AT NJ BEFORE THE FURLOUGHS?

The key word being "before".

In other words, how my NJ employees lost their jobs before the union lost theirs, and how is that treating the entire company employee base fairly?


Working in a non-union carrier meant that I no longer had to worry about ANY union creating a situation where non-union employees would suffer at the hand of union employees.

It meant a fair, turmoil-free work enviorment where all employees worked together for a common mission goal rather than a union "I know it better than you so I should be paid more" atmosphere that is what NJW so much advocates.

I speak my mind here without fear that my opinions can be used against me and choose to keep my identity private. Working for a union carrier provokes fear of reprisal for all the employees in the company.

NJW openly stated that her husband bailed out of AMR when they didn't like what the union did there when they were low on the seniority list.

Now that they are safe and high on the list it's easy for her to go ahead and give her rhetoric because they can't be touched.

If they were low on the list today and in danger of being screwed like what the union was doing to them at AMR, you can bet your butt that she wouldn't be quite so loving of the union life.

After all, they bailed last time.. so it's clear she speaks from both sides of her mouth.


Oh.. and Broke...I'm not owned... nobody owns me.
I'm not union and pay no dues... I speak for myself and don't need to pay for somebody to speak for me.

What's that smell?

Somebody is covered with blue juice... :laugh: