1st Qtr Results-Netjets

[gunfyter]

In other words, how my NJ employees lost their jobs before the union lost theirs, and how is that treating the entire company employee base fairly?
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IBT local 284 is available to help organize any group of employees that may be interested.

 

[imacdog]

NJ management could have chosen to keep non-union employees on property until the 495 were furloughed, yet they didn't. Sounds like a management decision to me.

 

[B19 Flyer]

Cowards...

NJ management could have chosen to keep non-union employees on property until the 495 were furloughed, yet they didn't. Sounds like a management decision to me.

Stop dodging the quesion.

Let me try this again because the COWARDS on this board won't answer the question.

How many non-union employees were sacrificed before the union furloughs happened?

C'mon folks.. easy question.. put some numbers to it..

How many were sacrificed????

 

[imacdog]

You just didn't like my response that it was management's decision to lay off those workers. Too bad, management troll.

 

[gunfyter]

Stop dodging the quesion.

Let me try this again because the COWARDS on this board won't answer the question.

How many non-union employees were sacrificed before the union furloughs happened?

C'mon folks.. easy question.. put some numbers to it..

How many were sacrificed????

The answer is ZERO....

 

[netjetwife]

What's that smell? Something fishy!!

Somebody is covered with blue juice... :laugh:

While hopping over the rotten ooze covering your post, something slimy jumped out at me. I'd like to caution those who quote B19 that you may unwittingly be a party to his libelous smear campaign. I believe most FI members are above that and frankly one has to wonder if Avantair is aware that a member of their management team makes unequivocally false statements on a public message board? (A review of his posts confirms that he has identified himself as being in management and at Avantair. Regular posters may recall that this topic has been previously addressed). The following quotes from B19's post demonstrate that he has little regard for accuracy when he talks about a person whose viewpoint differs from his. I have set the record straight in red type to serve as a red flag warning to others.

NJW openly stated that her husband bailed out of AMR when they didn't like what the union did there when they were low on the seniority list. I have not and would not say that as my husband only left American because he was furloughed by management after 9-11. Had he been allowed to stay he would have served in the Union and still remains on good terms with the Volunteers there.

Now that they are safe and high on the list it's easy for her to go ahead and give her rhetoric because they can't be touched. Actually, the truth is that I began posting here when my husband was on the bottom of the seniority list at NJA. He was still an FO when he joined the grassroots movement Strong Union. We both firmly believe in the right of every pilot, regardless of seniority, to work under a contract and have a say in their career. Our statements have been consistent and are easy to verify.

If they were low on the list today and in danger of being screwed like what the union was doing to them at AMR, you can bet your butt that she wouldn't be quite so loving of the union life. The Union didn't "screw" us at American, management did. Many believe that they made bad financial decisions and then used 9-11 as an excuse to furlough pilots from AA so that they could push them into regional flying where they were severely under-paid/over-worked. Furthermore, my husband IS low on the list at AA (where he still has recall rights) and fully supports the AA pilots who are struggling for a fair contract while management continues to give itself multi-million dollar bonuses.

After all, they bailed last time.. so it's clear she speaks from both sides of her mouth. Reality = My husband did not willingly leave American Airlines and he still maintains his connection to the Union there. A review of my posts will show that my belief in fundamental fairness --every pilotgroup having a seat at the table--has always been expressed clearly and consistently.

I cannot imagine that my husband's short career at AA holds much interest for FI members but a review of B19's posting will reveal that he has repeatedly presented a skewed version of it to suit his anti-union campaign. He seems to have an obsessive hatred for Unions and those who advocate having a voice in decisions that directly affect a pilot's career and family life.

IMO, his behavior in this industry forum does a disservice to the hard working pilots at Avantair who surely desire a positive public image for their company. Based on B19's refusal to post accurately (I have corrected his false statements on previous occasions) one can logically surmise that he will be similarly dismissive of the facts in his interactions with his fellow co-workers, supervisors, and clients should he decide that an inaccurate statement would better serve his personal agenda.

A friendly warning to my fellow FI members who also have B19 on ignore...

CHECK SIX!
NJW

 

[glasspilot]

...and frankly one has to wonder if Avantair is aware that a member of their management team makes unequivocally false statements on a public message board? (A review of his posts confirms that he has identified himself as being in management and at Avantair.)

I'm not aware of B19 ever saying he is at Avantair. Please provide a quote.

gp

 

[imacdog]

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=84881&page=12 Well there ya go, I guess our ol' boy B really has gone off the deep end these last couple years, hasn't he? Going through life that unstable probably isn't good for one's health.

 

[wacoflyr]

So B19 appears to have worked at Avantair in 2006. He spouts anti-union rhetoric in a kind of monotone rant. Some of his points are valid, some not. Many find his characterizations annoying. I read his posts because he occasionally says things that are correct and interesting.

Netjetwife appears to be the wife of a pilot who works for... well, I guess that's obvious. She spouts pro-union rhetoric in a kind of monotone rant. Some of her points are valid, some not. Many find her characteristics annoying. I read her posts because she occasionally says things that are correct and interesting.

They both profess to focus on ideas, and yet neither one can help attacking the other. They sound like they should be married, with a good counseler making money off of them.

Perhaps... just an idea... we should start a thread just for them? Then they can get together whenever they like, and vent to their heart's content. The posts would be predictable, and we could read them all in one place, or ignore them.

 

[netjetwife]

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=84881&page=12 Well there ya go, I guess our ol' boy B really has gone off the deep end these last couple years, hasn't he? Going through life that unstable probably isn't good for one's health.

Not to mention one's co-workers...:erm: Especially those subordinate to his will as a manager.... I wonder if other managers at Avantair read this board? And if they do, are they aware of who B19 is?? That's an awful thought. If they are, it would mean that management there actually approves of the image B19 projects...:erm: Hopefully not....

But if so, I feel very badly for the Avantair pilots. They truly do need a contract to protect their interests with someone like B19 being part of the decision making process that affects their careers and family life! That's like assigning a fox to guard the chicken coop. First analogy to come to mind...

 

[wacoflyr]

Not to mention one's co-workers...:erm: Especially those subordinate to his will as a manager.... I wonder if other managers at Avantair read this board? And if they do, are they aware of who B19 is?? That's an awful thought. If they are, it would mean that management there actually approves of the image B19 projects...:erm: Hopefully not....

But if so, I feel very badly for the Avantair pilots. They truly do need a contract to protect their interests with someone like B19 being part of the decision making process that affects their careers and family life! That's like assigning a fox to guard the chicken coop. First analogy to come to mind...

You could not be more wrong. The economy hits, so I lose an upgrade for awhile. The company could have said "it's the economy, stupid." Instead, they give us a payraise to help out. If I want to talk to the D.O., I talk to the D.O. If I disagree with an instructor, operations, flight following or whoever, I am free to do so without clearing it through some other union who's interests may be different than mine. I have to have a valid reason, but that is fair, and I like it this way.

Netjets got a union. Fine. Maybe they needed it, I don't know because I wasn't there. You are not here. You are not even a pilot. You do not know. The hubris in your posts on this matter is amazing to me.

You do not know Avantair. You do not know what is best for us. Is not this obvious? I tell stuff like this to my eight year old, and she gets it. How come you can't?

 

[HazMat]

Waco this is just njw using "transference" as I understand it is the transfer of anger on those trying to help. Like in hiring those that were thrown to the "wolves" with no hope of paying the mortgage. Don't worry folks despite this njw rant we will continue to hire those effected.

We all know b19 doesn't work in management at AvantAir. Not shocking he would say he does based on the fact we are non union and have not furloughed a single pilot and have shown great success.

 

[HazMat]

Funny though that she would bring up a post from 2006. There is a total of two executives still with the company since then. Thanks for teaching us about "transference" in the nji rip thread now it all makes sense. There it was just an insensitive comment about furloughed netjet pilots but her it makes alot of sense

 

[netjetwife]

So B19 appears to have worked at Avantair in 2006. Which begs the question: Does he still? On the previous occasions when it came up, he was asked about his job but instead of answering a common question (like many do to explain their connection to the industry), B19 became evasive--yet but still expected others (Fischman comes to mind) to answer his many questions about their career. When those guys pointed out that it was B19's turn to respond, he stopped posting for awhile. Many saw that as telling behavior and logically surmised that he is still in management at Avantair. They were left to rely on the info B19 shared before he starting dodging ordinary questions.

Netjetwife appears to be the wife of a pilot who works for... well, I guess that's obvious. Exactly as I planned it to be, in the interest of open, up-front posting. Many others are likewise open about their connection so one can fairly wonder why B19 now appears to be hiding his own. That behavior begs another question: Does he have a hidden agenda involving Avantair? Considering his hatred for Unions, it is very likely that he would make it his personal mission to prevent Avantair pilots from having a seat at the table.

They both profess to focus on ideas, and yet neither one can help attacking the other. Correction: I have literally been ignoring B19 altogether for a very long time, other than a few words now and then, said to those who announced their decision to put him on their ignore list. ...

Perhaps... just an idea... we should start a thread just for them? Then they can get together whenever they like, and vent to their heart's content. The posts would be predictable, and we could read them all in one place, or ignore them.

B19 would be on that thread alone, continuing to spew FUD in his irrationally hate-filled posts. The only reason that I responded to it this time is because his skewed version of my husband's time at AA (in yelling-sized print) caught my eye as I scrolled thru a thread where LazyB had quoted him. B19's false statements about my husband's career naturally caused me to wonder again about his own. When Glass questioned the accuracy of my posting I felt it was a legitimate request that I should honor--not ignore as B19 does--especially in light of my complaint about him posting false information.

I have set the record straight--yet again --about my husband getting furloughed from American 9 years ago. That B19 is stuck on that just shows how bizarre he is! Once more I am inviting FI members to rely on my honest account of that portion of my family's history rather than the misleading, inaccurate posting of someone who is extremely anti-union and seems to have an obsession with discrediting those who support a pilotgroup's right to work under a contract. B19's incessant efforts to publicly harm my family's reputation have been likened to online stalking. I agree with the FI members who view his libelous attacks that way.

Waco, I too, have an idea... perhaps we could get the Avantair pilots (the only ones B19 has aligned himself with) to ask him to quit harassing a female member of the frac community? To stop his smear campaign against me and my husband? While no one wants to be the target of his "stalking", the suggestion also benefits those who are tired of his obsessive yelling/posting while he focuses his unwanted attention on me. Another consideration: it would be in the best interest of Avantair pilots to help curtail behavior perceived as online stalking. One cannot imagine that is an image you want associated with the company you fly for. :erm:

I appreciate your interest in helping to solve the problem of these attacks. Good luck should the Avantair pilots choose to "negotiate" with B19.
NJW

 

[netjetwife]

....We all know b19 doesn't work in management at AvantAir. Not shocking he would say he does based on the fact we are non union and have not furloughed a single pilot and have shown great success.

How would you "know" that? While I certainly do agree that over time he has earned his reputation for a poster lacking in credibility, his '06 posts regarding Avantair were liberally sprinkled with insider knowledge and his pride in the company was just as genuine as yours is. He was not on the anti-union warpath at that time so there is no reason to doubt his sincerity about happily working at Avantair. Indeed, the tone of his posting was quite open/normal at that time. The "yelling" (large print) and evasion came later.

I'm a firm believer in giving credit where credit is due....even to B19.

 

[B19 Flyer]

"He Declined"

NJW openly stated that her husband bailed out of AMR when they didn't like what the union did there when they were low on the seniority list.

I have not and would not say that as my husband only left American because he was furloughed by management after 9-11. Had he been allowed to stay he would have served in the Union and still remains on good terms with the Volunteers there.

Your quote above uses the words "Had he been allowed to stay"

That doesn't match what you wrote in this post:

"I definitely agree, and experienced this firsthand when my husband was laid off from AA right after 9-11. He declined to go into the Eagle side of the airline not only because of the lower pay (he'd just recently completed training), but also because he was hearing that the Eagle pilots didn't want the regular AA guys there--too many hard feelings over the wide pay gap."


http://forums.flightinfo.com/showpost.php?p=414999&postcount=27



It looks to me like he was allowed to stay, but instead, "He declined" (that kinda means he quit)

Now, I'm no English Major, but you wrote "He declined" above.

That kinda means he had an option, and gee whiz... he bailed out.

Caught you in another lie once again.

 

[netjetwife]

Fellow FI members, this is the type of sleazy behavior that has led many to view B19 as an obsessed, word-twisting online stalker.

As every pilot here is fully aware, there was a huge difference between AA and Eagle in 2004. They are 2 separate pilotgroups and they were ran as 2 separate companies. The only job relevant in the discussion is AA where my husband still has a seniority number. That is the company he interviewed for; it was AA management that hired my husband and furloughed him less than 6 months later much against his will. He has never flown in the regionals. He was never a pilot for Eagle. Had he wanted a position there, he would have applied to them, instead of to American.

The fact that B19 is trying to equate the Regionals to the Majors, and chump-change to a fair contract does not change the reality, accurately posted by me, that my husband was NOT allowed to remain in the cockpit on his job at American. That an aviation manager (by his posts working at Avantair, but the pilots don't want to claim him) sees no problem with a bait and switch type of tactic does not surprise me. It exemplifies why so many, many pilots in aviation belong to a Union. They have learned that, more often than not, aviation managers cannot be trusted.

Indeed, the frac pilots could easily put together a list of infamous executives that have behaved just as unethically as the greedy managers at AA. With B19's conduct here at FI, I think he could easily be the top candidate for Avantair. Given his penchant for distortion, one has to wonder if he is just as unpopular there as Mr. Moisture was at NJA for the same reason :erm:

Now to be fair, there are certainly "rotten apples" in every department bushel, including the pilotgroups. However, those few blend in with the crowd while executives are much more visible and have a far greater potential for doing damage to a company's reputation. Especially if said manager is gleefully harassing others on an industry message board. That's hardly the public image a growing fractional company like Avantair wants to portray when trying to attract clients that value discretion and demand a high level of customer service. :erm:

 

[HazMat]

Njw once again you need to actually read the post before you respond. There are only two high level managers with the company since 06. The person who people on fi claim is b19 wasn't even with the company in 06 so that dispels that theory. It's funny that you pick apart everything he says as untrue other than his claim to work at AvantAir. Just think it would make sense to say that because we are non union and have not furloughed and have been on the path to success since 06 where else would he say he worked. I can tell you first hand the mentality at Avantair has always been to respect the pilot group. That is the reason there wasn't a furlough. The company cut expenses in every other area to keep everyone employed. Something no other fraction can say and yes I am proud of that. As you say no contract can prevent a furlough but what can is management working with all employees to set out a plan and execute on that plan with honesty and integrity. That's what has occurred at AvantAir. Trust me from what I hear there is even more to come. Like last month when we were all given stock options. Talk about being an Internet stalker lay off AvantAir.

 

[netjetwife]

..... The person who people on fi claim is b19 wasn't even with the company in 06 so that dispels that theory. Actually, you need to check the "Avantair Called" thread which I brought back up for readers' convenience. On Sept 23, 2006, post # 159, B19 posted the following:

Avantair is an amazing place to work and yes, there are growing pains. I can tell you though, that this is the place to be right now for to fly in the fractional world. The last six months have seen amazing things happen and it’s only going to get better as the company grows. So, for those of us working at Avantair, there is no beef and we choose to be here because we want to be.

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=84881&page=11


It's funny that you pick apart everything he says as untrue other than his claim to work at AvantAir. His sincere pride in working at Avantair is plain to see. Just about everything else he posts is anti-union FUD. Trust me from what I hear there is even more to come. Like last month when we were all given stock options. ...lay off AvantAir. I am quite happy for the Avantair pilots and their families. This is not about Avantair. It is about B19 and fairly setting the record straight.

So B19, what was your job position at Avantair in 2006? Or, if you prefer .... What dept did you work in at Avantair in 2006?

 

[netjetwife]

Supporting evidence of B19's Avantair employment in 2006

"Avantair Called" p 6. post # 85 from 9-05-06: "....has had nothing to do with MX for a long, long time. His interests have been directed elsewhere for a many months and these efforts are bearing great fruit for the company. MX at Avantair is excellent and the strategic cutbacks were painful but necessary. They also didn't include only MX. Sounds like B19 could be running MX at Avantair. To those of you that want to know the truth about Avantair, this is one of the neatest places that any aviation minded person could work. Nice endorsement! Maybe he's in charge of hiring.....

Avantair Called" p 6. post # 87 from 9-05-06: ...the individual you carelessly named hasn’t been involved in MX for a LONG, LONG time. As a matter of fact, if you REALLY knew the story behind the story, That sounds like an inner circle manager bragging. your posts would be written completely differently and your criticisms would be off in a whole different direction. Avantair is all good, and it’s an exciting place to work. That could apply to any position. But we know from his posts that we can rule out pilot, as he was no longer flying then.


http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?p=1106846#post1106846

How many guesses do we have to make before B19 provides the common information that others--without an agenda--freely volunteer to establish their connection to the fractional industry? Quite a few of the NJ pilots asked him numerous times when he was busy grilling them about the Union.