1st Qtr Results-Netjets

[OPECJet]

That's a fun age for sure! And there's nothing like a young child to help keep things in perspective and balance life's problems with its joys.

Kudos to you for not just passing the help to those who needed it more, but for contributing as well. From what I hear and read, the NJ pilots are proud (rightfully so) of their collective response --from the Preventive Measures to the refund. I'm sure the latter was considered carefully by the EBoard, especially the VP of Finances who takes his responsibility very seriously. Did you read last Friday's 411? It had a very informative update from the VPF and he also posts lots of info on his website. Plus you can always call or email him to discuss your concerns. That goes for the rest of the EBoard, too. You're furloughed ... but not forgotten.... NJW

PS Bath time entertainment...that reminds me of the time my oldest son (3 at the time) played in his bath while I cleaned the bedrooms and listened to him happily pouring water repeatedly from his little cup. I was amazed that he could be entertained for so long with one simple toy. He had lots of others....odd... When I went to get him out of the tub I discovered why. The carpet was soaked.... Enjoy the moments and treasure the memories...

The VP of finance pretty much rolls his eyes when he hears my name (according to a good friend). It's nothing personal, I just made a lot of noise about a few topics. He's probably not the only one.

We've got wall to wall tile in the kid's bathroom, so splashing water out of the tub is a well received activity. It becomes problematic when I bathe him at his grandparent's house. I have to do lots of cleanup, but it's part of the fun.

 

[netjetwife]

I'm sure the VPF will take calls from any of the NJ pilots, but as an ice breaker you can talk about your son. The VPF is pro-family and everyone knows that was a very stressful time so allowances should be made. When you call him feel free to quote me on that...

 

[OPECJet]

I'm sure the VPF will take calls from any of the NJ pilots, but as an ice breaker you can talk about your son. The VPF is pro-family and everyone knows that was a very stressful time so allowances should be made. When you call him feel free to quote me on that...

Ah, I have no doubt he would take my call and help if I needed it. I got a good laugh out of the whole exchange between him and a friend of mine. It's really not a big deal.

 

[netjetwife]

A big deal...no. But I do find your concern about the dues refund interesting. If you don't want to call and ask about it, I think I'll do some research of my own. Feel free to PM me your list of questions and I'll report back tomorrow.

Seriously, all of our families are affected (as the furloughees know only too well... ) so it makes sense to pay attention to the issues facing NJASAP. I find the weekly 411s very informative and recommend them to NJ spouses. (Hopefully the NJ pilots are already reading them).

Another suggestion (for those eligible) please remember to vote in the EBoard election. A good turnout sends an important message to all concerned.
Thanks!
NJW

 

[CRJFlyer]

I've found the 411's to be pretty much a waste of 5 minutes of my Friday. Other than making most of us curious about what new rumor is being spread, they contain no substance about flight activity, demand, sales, any new initiatives from DS. No incite or thoughts about the 5yr (or lack of) plan. Or thoughts/opinions of how things are going. Basically everything that us 495 care about. (And I have no doubt a large portion of the seniority list care about also)

Example: 2 guys get into trouble and we hear about it. There is a new initiative to basically watch your back and don't bend over for scheduling etc. (just a loose perspective from myself). So in a month or so we go from "lets all be team players because management has acted in a cooperative manner", to, "look out because management is playing hardball."

Now I'm not the most experienced or versed in management/union tactics, but even I know that:

- At a large company like NJA, it's all about the dollars and management will attempt to squeeze every dollar it can. Especially when it wants something. They'll resort to making the pilots lives a bit more difficult every day until they either create enough fear, or enough apathy, that the pilots eventually give in. We're just lucky there isn't another subsidiary that they can pawn flying off to.



While I was extremely impressed with the IBB (atleast the parts that mattered in my life $$). And I was also impressed with the leadership, although I was only here for a short portion of their tenure. I have really begun to doupt current NJASAP leadership. They did do their best during the furlough. THEY HAD TO MAKE MORE THAN ONE ATTEMPT TO GET CORRECT INFO OUT. There are guys that basically gave up their seniority by accident because info was not accurate. I won't even get into the OH UI benefit fiasco. (and I actually had a pretty easy time)

My biggest concern is that whenever a NJASAP leader/official is questioned or confronted, they seem to get very defensive. Especially in their msg. board responses. Just my personal observation.

Even though I've found really fun employment with a substantial pay raise( so my bitterness has greatly subsided). I still plan to return to NJA for the long term, and even then I will still feel that this leadership wasn't all that it could have been.

 

[netjetwife]

I've found the 411's to be pretty much a waste of 5 minutes of my Friday. I'm sure we all waste 5 minutes on much less important things. Other than making most of us curious about what new rumor is being spread, they contain no substance about flight activity, demand, sales, any new initiatives from DS. Those topics are best reported by management; the 411 is for Union news. No incite or thoughts about the 5yr (or lack of) plan. Or thoughts/opinions of how things are going. Basically everything that us 495 care about. (And I have no doubt a large portion of the seniority list care about also) Just from memory and I'm sure if I reread back issues that I'd have more examples...there will not be another furlough...detailed explanation of Union finances...update on our efforts in CAPA...a reminder to vote in the current NJASAP election

Example: 2 guys get into trouble and we hear about it. There is a new initiative to basically watch your back and don't bend over for scheduling etc. (just a loose perspective from myself). So in a month or so we go from "lets all be team players because management has acted in a cooperative manner", to, "look out because management is playing hardball." Good info for those who may not be following along. .....

While I was extremely impressed with the IBB (atleast the parts that mattered in my life $$). And I was also impressed with the leadership, although I was only here for a short portion of their tenure. I have really begun to doupt current NJASAP leadership. :erm: The current EBoard was either serving in an elected position or was a lead volunteer at that time and were very involved w/IBB. IBB negotiators are on the current EBoard. They did do their best during the furlough. And achieved unprecedented results that have rightfully earned them kudos from the NJ pilotgroup and many in the industry. THEY HAD TO MAKE MORE THAN ONE ATTEMPT TO GET CORRECT INFO OUT. No one is perfect and many were giving up a huge amount of personal time. They could have done nothing but risked making mistakes to help others. ....

My biggest concern is that whenever a NJASAP leader/official is questioned or confronted, they seem to get very defensive. Especially in their msg. board responses. Just my personal observation. I've seen that on occasion, too. However, you are overlooking the vast amount of timely, calm responses in your focus on the less tactful remarks that all of us are guilty of when tired or under stress.

Even though I've found really fun employment with a substantial pay raise( so my bitterness has greatly subsided). I still plan to return to NJA for the long term, and even then I will still feel that this leadership wasn't all that it could have been.

These are the same leaders you praised for IBB. Their leadership efforts held the furlough back for almost a year and then they refunded the dues for those being benched. I have noticed that when they become the most defensive it is in response to those who persist in nitpicking and constantly view the glass as half-empty no matter how hard they work and no matter how praiseworthy the results. Luckily, that attitude is held by a small margin as the survey results show. The NJ pilots have a great Union and are led by some of the most dedicated leaders in all of aviation. Most NJ pilots realize that and are very appreciative.

CRJFlyer, I'm glad to hear you have found employment that you enjoy. Best of luck to any in the industry still looking. NJW

 

[glasspilot]

I don't think crjflyer was looking for a pep talk from the wife a union guy. My opinion only but the tone of his post suggested to me that you might be the last person he'd want to hear from.

 

[netjetwife]

I saw it as an academic debate on the value of the 411--a topic which I introduced and he responded to. Glass, I doubt he was surprised by a rebuttal... And on the subject of the current EBoard, I was just giving credit where credit is due. It was civil discourse. You might try it sometime.....

 

[BushwickBill]

Obviously a lot of upset people on this forum. Suggestion for those looking for jobs: try Kalitta Air Cargo. Perhaps you hadn't considered Kalitta... I don't work there but I just read that they are adding 5 747-400Fs this fall (recently purchased from JAL Cargo) and they will be online this fall. Doesn't hurt to apply...

Good luck!

There are no pilot positions posted on the webpage. I would like to apply... can you PM me any details?

 

[Pervis]

I don't think..........

Reminds me of the movie "The Bucket List", where Nicholson tells his assistant '....no one cares what you think'.

 

[brokeflyer]

hahahaha.......thats funny.

 

[jonjuan]

Reminds me of the movie "The Bucket List", where Nicholson tells his assistant '....no one cares what you think'.

No kidding. You'd think njwife would take the hint.

 

[CRJFlyer]

In the spirit of keeping the debate civil...Which in the FI world is a near impossibilty!!!

I DO completely understand the time that was volunteered to try and benefit us and continue to benefit those still on the line... But on the same token the age old response to that is that they did just that. Volunteered. There is a reason I don't volunteer. (both personal and also because then I would have to hear from guys ,like myself, who can find a negative in even the most positive)

And while I have my moans about NJA, I have always remained positive about my potential outcome through all of this. Even though it won't appear so through this msg. board and any other ones. It's the nature of the furlough beast. And the result of a select few who seem to want to rattle things up. PW comes to mind and we all remember the infamuous Higgins posts. (who both by the way have absolutely zero experience with the unemployment line as it pertains to aviation.) I THINK THE MONTHS PRECEEDING THE FURLOUGH WERE THE DOWNFALL OF THE SPLIT BETWEEN US. THERE WERE FAR TOO MANY SENIOR GUYS WHO BASICALLY SAID SUCK IT UP, PAY YOUR DUES, YOU'LL BE FINE, JUST FIND ANOTHER JOB ETC... I know it was only a VERY SMALL MINORITY, but it still didn't go unnoticed. And it was sad to know that there were those rotten apples out there.

The dues refund was nice.. And it was appreciated. But on the same token, unfortunately it lasted for maybe a week before it was spent on some bill . But I did appreciate the extra scratch. I would have made an effort to try some family fund money but the paperwork and website (atleast initially) were rather cumbersome.

Even todays 411, after glancing at it, still seems to be fluff..But atleast todays included some more info. (although because it had nothing that seemed to pertained to myself I didn't read it thoroughly)

But where things could have helped the most, seemed to come across as failures on some level or another.. Off the top of my head:

1)EJA.....no job opps. Although management makes decisions I can recall very little from the union besides "we're looking into it." Not verbatum...Many of us felt more should have been attempted to rectify that.

2)NJME...., seems very similar to our EJA opps. Not really substantial.

3)MSG board access. Although not real important to me because I read for the entertainment factor, it still was a kick in the baby makers.

4)UI....NJASAP seemed to make it more confusing than helpful. I think we can all agree on that.

5)Resigning seniority.....Goodbye to those who "thought" they were just resigning on paper. Hope they found a worthwhile job because they just lost this one for it.

While it is nice that accounting, state of the union etc. is being relayed through the 411's. On our end it doesn't make up for some of the gross mis-information that occurred during first months of the furlough. Especially UI and resignation.

Luckily it's basically all smoothed out now, and the msg. boards appear to be slow these days, which is good.

I realize NJWIFE is the better half of a union guy. To me that's basically saying my wife knows how to fly because she's married to a pilot. But in reality my wife only knows what I tell her. J/J

But in reality NJWIFE is obviously 100% pro NJASAP. And thats understandable given her relationship. I think unions are a necesity in certain circumstances. But to be honest, in the 5 jobs I've had the mis-fortune of obtaining this decade. The 2 most stressful were the ones that involved being part of a Union. The other 3, I have absolutely loved, but had to move on for various reasons. (furlough, pay, benefits etc) But my time there was much more enjoyable. I guess to get more you have to suffer more....

This was all written in as civil a response as I could. No ill will or aggression intended..

 

[glasspilot]

It was civil discourse. You might try it sometime.....

I was being civil. It just looked to me like the guy was venting. Then you gave him a point by point explanation where he was wrong on each point.

Someone pointed out "no cares what I think" and it's true, this isn't my fight. I'm just a bystander. I'm just sayin sometimes people in a bad situation need to be allowed to vent frustration.

gp

 

[CRJFlyer]

Funny thing is I'm in a better situation now..atleast stresswise, than I ever was at NJA. Atleast I'm working less, making more, and home alot more. The first year at NJA was great/exciting, but the stress level for more than an entire year began to take it's toll.

So the disgruntled factor and need to vent has subsided for the most part. But I still feel like, not due to any lack of effort on NJASAP's part, it could have gone alot smoother. And by smoother I mean the really important parts (UI, resgination criteria etc). The 411's are just a topic of conversation, not a standard by which I hold NJASAP accountable for my well being.

All water under the bridge nowadays:beer:

 

[B19 Flyer]

Reality... What a concept...

In the spirit of keeping the debate civil...Which in the FI world is a near impossibilty!!!

I DO completely understand the time that was volunteered to try and benefit us and continue to benefit those still on the line... But on the same token the age old response to that is that they did just that. Volunteered. There is a reason I don't volunteer. (both personal and also because then I would have to hear from guys ,like myself, who can find a negative in even the most positive)

And while I have my moans about NJA, I have always remained positive about my potential outcome through all of this. Even though it won't appear so through this msg. board and any other ones. It's the nature of the furlough beast. And the result of a select few who seem to want to rattle things up. PW comes to mind and we all remember the infamuous Higgins posts. (who both by the way have absolutely zero experience with the unemployment line as it pertains to aviation.) I THINK THE MONTHS PRECEEDING THE FURLOUGH WERE THE DOWNFALL OF THE SPLIT BETWEEN US. THERE WERE FAR TOO MANY SENIOR GUYS WHO BASICALLY SAID SUCK IT UP, PAY YOUR DUES, YOU'LL BE FINE, JUST FIND ANOTHER JOB ETC... I know it was only a VERY SMALL MINORITY, but it still didn't go unnoticed. And it was sad to know that there were those rotten apples out there.

The dues refund was nice.. And it was appreciated. But on the same token, unfortunately it lasted for maybe a week before it was spent on some bill . But I did appreciate the extra scratch. I would have made an effort to try some family fund money but the paperwork and website (atleast initially) were rather cumbersome.

Even todays 411, after glancing at it, still seems to be fluff..But atleast todays included some more info. (although because it had nothing that seemed to pertained to myself I didn't read it thoroughly)

But where things could have helped the most, seemed to come across as failures on some level or another.. Off the top of my head:

1)EJA.....no job opps. Although management makes decisions I can recall very little from the union besides "we're looking into it." Not verbatum...Many of us felt more should have been attempted to rectify that.

2)NJME...., seems very similar to our EJA opps. Not really substantial.

3)MSG board access. Although not real important to me because I read for the entertainment factor, it still was a kick in the baby makers.

4)UI....NJASAP seemed to make it more confusing than helpful. I think we can all agree on that.

5)Resigning seniority.....Goodbye to those who "thought" they were just resigning on paper. Hope they found a worthwhile job because they just lost this one for it.

While it is nice that accounting, state of the union etc. is being relayed through the 411's. On our end it doesn't make up for some of the gross mis-information that occurred during first months of the furlough. Especially UI and resignation.

Luckily it's basically all smoothed out now, and the msg. boards appear to be slow these days, which is good.

I realize NJWIFE is the better half of a union guy. To me that's basically saying my wife knows how to fly because she's married to a pilot. But in reality my wife only knows what I tell her. J/J

But in reality NJWIFE is obviously 100% pro NJASAP. And thats understandable given her relationship. I think unions are a necesity in certain circumstances. But to be honest, in the 5 jobs I've had the mis-fortune of obtaining this decade. The 2 most stressful were the ones that involved being part of a Union. The other 3, I have absolutely loved, but had to move on for various reasons. (furlough, pay, benefits etc) But my time there was much more enjoyable. I guess to get more you have to suffer more....

This was all written in as civil a response as I could. No ill will or aggression intended..

Thank you. This is reality.

 

[FLYLOW22]

B19 Flyer
This message is hidden because B19 Flyer is on your ignore list.

Ahhhhhhhh

 

[NCherches]

Do something happen to your NetJet crew-meals? Seems like I am I seeing less and less NJ guys pigging out in FBO's lately....

 

[OPECJet]

Thank you. This is reality.

Reality is you picking a sensitive subject such as this to push your agenda. Shows a lot about your character.

 

[FLYLOW22]

Do something happen to your NetJet crew-meals? Seems like I am I seeing less and less NJ guys pigging out in FBO's lately....

Really?

Don't think so.

The meals are still too small and taste like MREs. :laugh: