172 = $127/hr!

[xkuzme1]

...

I live a mile from my local airport.

Prices:

VFR 150- $60
IFR 150- $65
VFR PA28 $70
IFR 172- $88


Instructor is $35

Prices are cheaper than most but it is still more expensive then when I learned.

www.rebelaviation.com

 

[MJG]

Wow, that is cheap!

To the original question: More and more I read that less and less individuals are able to afford flight training. At $140/hr for a basic C-172, is it any wonder why?

Big pilot shortage is just around the corner. Eventually this shortage will make it's way all the way up to the Majors. Those of us on the inside now will make lots of money but have a lousy quality of life. Those on the outside will be glad they decided to stay out.

FWIW, staffing is the worst I've seen it now in nine years at my carrier.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

Stay out of NYC if you want good rates for any sort of training. Prices are through the roof and thats for old cessnas and pipers without any glass.

A private certificate at a part 61 will run easily around $12,000.

 

[Andrew_VT]

everything costs more now than it did 10 years ago, 5 years ago, 10 minutes ago, for that matter. 10 years ago, how much did a loaf of bread cost? How about a six-pack of beer? It costs more now, that is the definition of inflation.

Thats a poor excuse. What is inflation (consumer price index)? 3-4% a year?

Now lets look at embpic1's post. He said the 'non-fuel' rental costs went from $32 to $95 in 13 years.

Thats almost 23% a year!!!

That is not the definition of inflation...there are other forces in play here.

 

[BGSkyGuy]

What happens when one of these kids goes through the fancy flight school with all glass single engine pistons and doesn't get placed into his new fancy RJ. They get into a ATR, SAAB, etc. Or for that matter they have to go fly like the rest of us did at a charter company, freight, etc. They will have no idea how to read "steam" instruments.

I recently asked this question to a friend of mine who is a ground school instructor at a 4 year college in the midwest. They are going to all glass. He thinks it is absolutely ridiculous. It's all about the almighty $. If you don't have glass they will go somewhere that does. My first job out of CFIing was 135 in a C-310 and Baron. No glass in there. I would have been lost. And so will these new kids when the hiring slows up (which it will) and the only job they can get is staring at steam gauges.

 

[T-prop]

I laugh when I hear about airlines wanting user fees on GA.

They don't understand what they will have to pay to get pilots. No one can afford to learn how to fly at $180/hr and $50/landing.

They will choke off their "cheap" supply and will have to grow their own pilots.

If they think we're expensive now, just wait 'till they have to pay ALL of our training.

 

[J and E's Daddy]

I wouldn't be able to have afforded to get my ratings today if I didn't have them. This is one reason why their will be a bad shortage. Fewer and fewer are learning how to fly. Because people are getting smarter and no longer willing to invest thet type of money it costs to get a job and below poverty wages. And also to be looked down upon as nothing more than skilled labor. So, when these collective bargaining agreements are up, then we will be paid what we deserve.

 

[siucavflight]

I laugh when I hear about airlines wanting user fees on GA.

They don't understand what they will have to pay to get pilots. No one can afford to learn how to fly at $180/hr and $50/landing.

They will choke off their "cheap" supply and will have to grow their own pilots.

If they think we're expensive now, just wait 'till they have to pay ALL of our training.

They will start bringing in pilots from overseas, still cheap for them.

 

[topdawg]

Want to see a ripoff look up flightschoolhawaii.

 

[Gator1999]

The Cirrus is the biggest rip off around. I have a buddy of mine that instructs in one and when I told him that I was thinking of getting checked out in one I asked him what the process was. He told me that flight schools require a 10 FLIGHT hour training course. When asked at how much the plane costs per hour, he said $250! I just about fell over. Just to get the checkout costs $2500! WTFO!

He tried to justify the cost saying that it takes some time to get used to the "speed" of the aircraft and requires training to "stay ahead of the aircraft". What a bunch of crap!

Anyone else heard of flight school's running this scam?

 

[bobs98tlr]

6K would be a bargain for a PVT, in Chicago most spend about 12K

Did you work at IAA? I think i might know you if you do.

 

[hindsight2020]

If in fact we're getting priced out of the market, how does the old argument of buy vs. rent shifts with the new paradigm of $130/hr cessna rentals?

At rental rates above 100/hr for a old 172, I just don't buy that the operating costs of these airframes have shot up that much in less than 5 years. As was illustrated before, even with the current gas prices, the differential does not account for the price increase. I also don't think insurance has shot up that high, although I'm open to hear from somebody who knows the numbers. So is this a case of profiteering stemming from the glass panel piston "revolution" and if so, is buying a feasible alternative to biting your way back into GA? talking about your garden variety steam gauge C-152/172 as a benchmark.

 

[flyslow24]

172 - $127/hour

At least someone is making a profit off the aviation industry...

 

[CFI2766]

If in fact we're getting priced out of the market, how does the old argument of buy vs. rent shifts with the new paradigm of $130/hr cessna rentals?

At rental rates above 100/hr for a old 172, I just don't buy that the operating costs of these airframes have shot up that much in less than 5 years. As was illustrated before, even with the current gas prices, the differential does not account for the price increase. I also don't think insurance has shot up that high, although I'm open to hear from somebody who knows the numbers. So is this a case of profiteering stemming from the glass panel piston "revolution" and if so, is buying a feasible alternative to biting your way back into GA? talking about your garden variety steam gauge C-152/172 as a benchmark.

Yes, Insurance has increased dramatically. Labor costs for mx have increased dramatically. (It costs much more per hour for an A&P to fix the A/C than for for an instructor to teach in it.) Fuel has exponetially increased. I'm working for/running a flight school with newer, non-glass 172's and Cirrus a/c, and we are not turning a huge profit. Tie-down fees. Airport fees. It's not pretty from the perspective of a flight school manager. It's a popular misconception that because the price has skyrocketed, the profits have skyrocketed. They have not.

 

[AerroMatt]

When I learned to fly a few decades ago, I was working at a pretty low-paying job at a defense contractor in the LA area. In terms of my wages, it cost me about 8 hours of labor (not counting taxes) in order to pay for 1 hour of dual in a C152.

If this labor/dual ratio has gone up, then yes it makes no sense for someone to go into aviation for a hobby or a career. But has it? This might explain why some are still willing to pay to learn to fly.

Otherwise, Microsoft Flight Simulator is a much cheaper form of entertainment.

 

[~~~^~~~]

The prices of used airplanes are coming down, particularly the 77-81 and first "new generation" aircraft that are now getting removed from the rental fleets. I would recommend anyone getting a rating these days to simply buy their own C172, put 200 hours and a good coat of wax on it, then sell it for what they had in it.

A pilot does not need a glass panel, or even a Garmin product, to get a rating. We had a old military issue "coffee grinder" NDB in the T-42 (Baron) at our club and many got instrument ratings in that thing. The Apache is not a sexy airplane, but multi time is multi time and there are still many of them on the market cheap.

I have yet to lose money on an airplane despite putting more than 1,500 hours on airplanes I've owned. Sure, you have to get your hands dirty and do a little work, but that is part of the fun.

Let the other guys pay the high insurance rates for flight schools and pay the maintenance for the local "Executive Jet Management" mechanics to clean the plugs on fouled out Lycomings. Pick up a book on maintenance you can perform yourself and make friends with your local mechanic (be sure to tip him generously when he has to come over and make sure you did it correctly.)

 

[wms]

F33C and T34...cool!

 

[~~~^~~~]

F33C and T34...cool!

Yes the Navy flying clubs had the T-34B models for $48 an hour, the Barons for $90 an hour. Pat Epps (Epps Air Service, PDK) used to let folks fly his F33C, but I think you have to be an employee to get your hands on it now.

The days of rental airplanes as toys probably are gone forever. The T-34's really were idiot proof, but apparently constant simulated ACM really took the life out of the wing spar. We never had a bit of problems with ours.

 

[acaTerry]

Time for me to get outta the cockpit and open a flight school....

 

[Twisted Mind]

When I last ran the budget for our corporate flown 172 it was $85 an hour! The company budgets to fly 200 hrs a year. Our Columbia 400 is $225 an hour. Flight schools fly more hours on their aircraft but they also pay much higher insurance! Trust me when I say that mom and pop flight schools are not making a good profit, if any at all.