121 to corporate - what's the secret?

[MissKittyKat]

Cubicle, I would like to respond and offer hope. I went from being a 121s F/A to a corporate F/A. Gulfstream and many others responded and all good stuff.

Blood/sweat/tears/ hard work, your dedication, your focus, and your dreams and ambitions can be attained. Try to network with as many people as you can. As a corporate F/a I just passed down a five day trip and handed to someone else who really needed the job. Do some research, and write down exactly what would be good for you and go from there.

The aviation industry has changed over the years, but still you can make a career here or do it for fun. Have you ever been to a large scale convention, where the opportunity to pass your business card, and meet others at an optimal time, this an opportunity as well.

Check every single website daily, do an online profile for every Fortune 500 company, say one a day, they will automatically send you matching opportunities. Every door is open, but it takes time.

Good Luck.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Can someone please explain to me why an EMB-120/170 or CRJ rating and flight time is not valuable? CRJs are being converted to corporate more and more.
AZT

yeah?? guess Im missing the CRJ converted corporate jets out there cloggin up FL 290 across the Atlantic...

:erm:

410 IT DUDE!


no, really, I suppose no flight time is "invaluable" - its just that all all airline regional resume is not liklely going to compare to a resume with a corp/charter background. That is all that was meant. Decent jobs will always have a large selection of candidates, you have to look better than the rest.

Check the regional board. Dr Maartens, IPODs, and the " F**k the pax, I'll act professional when I get paid to" attitude dosen't work in most corp outfits. Ask any of them -- they would never lower themselves to "carry some jerkoffs briefcase and clean $hitters like corp dudes".....aiiight.

but yeah, we sport the Docs, Ipods, and backpacks too!......when we hit the hotel, not in front of the pax.



any more questions? just check the Kats post above. She has it nailed.

 

[LXJ31]

The issue isn't usually flying time, its the depth of experience. That may sound like BS but hear me out.

Most corporate outfits are staffed by people who have done lots of different things in and out of aviation. Most (alert: generalizations ahead) people who send in a resume with a boatload of CRJ or ERJ time are probably A: 25-33 yrs old B: Went from something like a C-172 to PA-44 to RJ in a couple years C: Haven't done alot of single pilot ops in crap weather (not that its anything special, but some of the people doing the hiring probably did) D: Are not as likely to have a college degree (can matter to alot of HR departments.)

Problem with A is that there is an unspoken bias against "young whippersnappers" in corporate ops especially, but no exclusively, in the higher end. I'm relatively young and I got hired by the skin of my teeth at our outfit. The only reason they gave me a shot is my having a relatively rare type rating and experience in a certain jet. I had several interviews over a couple days with different people and departments; dinner and drinks etc. I managed not to pick my nose, hit on the owner's daughters or spout my political leanings and made it to the final "chat" with the big boss. He later said he shot me down in the first five minutes but changed his mind toward the end when I apparently (and unknowingly) said the right thing at the right time. But I'm convinced he wouldn't have been so inclined to give me a thumbs down if I had been few years older and looked much, much older. (Kind of fresh-faced over here....)

Problem with B and C is that many of the people who pick out resumes and referrals are older pilots who, early on in their own careers, were flying crappy airplanes for pencil-whipping shady outfits in all sorts of unusual situations. Maybe they flew in different regions of the world; our CP, among other things, flew in Saudi during the 70's and has some stories that would curl your hair. Bottom line, if your career hasn't had much color to it yet other than training in sunny Florida and then flying from EWR to IAD five times a day for a few years, some of these DOs and CPs may not be able to relate very well. I'm not saying its right or wrong, but put yourself in their shoes.

Problem with D is that the hiring standards at most places that operate RJs do not require postsecondary education. There is an ongoing debate regarding this topic on another thread so I won't rehash it here but the short and sweet is, anything that can separate you from the pack is a good thing. That, and many corporations have HR departments that wouldn't understand NOT requiring flight crews to have college degrees.

Combine ABCD and that is a general stereotypical view of how the corporate world may look at a pilot with 5000 hours of CRJ time and little else. Also, long-time corporate pilots don't really want to work with someone who may have willingly and enthusiastically agreed to fly jets as a professional for poverty wages. The thinking is "this guy was flying an RJ for $40k a year and now he's sitting next to me. He probably took the first offer they threw at him...Because of his example, I'm not going to get another raise for a long, long time...." I've got friends who fly for regionals so I'm careful not to denigrate the regionals as a whole. Remember the above are just generalities. Please forward any hate-mail to Gulfstream 200, he likes it.

 

[AA717driver]

The ONLY reason I got hired into Pt. 91 is because a friend worked there, has a good rep and went to bat for me.

Being a DC9 Capt. at a major with >10k hours and 4 bucks will get you a Vente at Starbucks. That's just the way it is.

Another issue is that during the furloughs during GW1 a lot of corporate outfits hired airline guys who swore they wouldn't go back. Recall letter came and the door didn't hit them in the a$$. Now, they are more hesitant. We furloughees are a little more savvy these days and are less likely to leave a good gig to go back to the mothership.

Bite the bullet, get typed at a 135 gig, hang around here and network at the FBO's and one day your ship will come in. Good luck.TC

 

[LXJ31]

Another issue is that during the furloughs during GW1 a lot of corporate outfits hired airline guys who swore they wouldn't go back. Recall letter came and the door didn't hit them in the a$$.

There is that too...forgot about that one.

 

[AZ Typed]

LXJ31 & Gulfstream 200 - excellent points!!! Thank you for the thoughtful respones and they make sense. I agree with everything you said. I've seen good people miss jobs though because they were labled ABCD when in fact they were likely better pilots and people than half of the crews at the outfit in the first place! Still - you make excellent points. Thanks!

AZT

 

[LXJ31]

I've seen good people miss jobs though because they were labled ABCD when in fact they were likely better pilots and people than half of the crews at the outfit in the first place!

AZT

Oh yeah, I don't think this trait will take you very far.

But, hey, I'm just some crazy internet guy, what do I know?

 

[AZ Typed]

Oh yeah, I don't think this trait will take you very far.

But, hey, I'm just some crazy internet guy, what do I know?

LXJ31 - I wasn't trying to shoot anyone down. It's just something I've observed. It happens at 121, 91, 135, and in every job in the world. I play politics, but I, like many people in a workplace, see questionable decisions made with regard to hiring. That's all I'm saying - nothing else. Jack Welch says that HR is the most underfunded and under-resourced department in any company because of the dumb hiring decisonis made. He's got a point, as this thread has discussed.

AZT

 

[LXJ31]

My wife read our posts and said I was being a jerk too. I clearly read the nuance wrong on your post, sorry about that.

But that site is pretty damn funny though, right?

 

[AA717driver]

My wife read our posts and said I was being a jerk too. I clearly read the nuance wrong on your post, sorry about that.

But that site is pretty dang funny though, right?

I already saw that website because...


I'M BETTER THAN YOU!!!

 

[svcta]

Let's all remember that dropping the "let's 410 it, dude" could easily be replaced with not "de-icing our challenger, geez, it's only colorado in the winter." Or pick your accident.........we all say stupid sounding things once in a while.........I digress

Having been lucky enough to get out of the airlines and into corp. myself I can say that it was mainly the OLD relationships that I had that lead the job to me(fell right in my lap). Never piss anybody off unless you really, really mean it.

Also, having heard it a number of times, it's the generally bad attitude that most airline pilots have that keeps them out of corp. We all do it, but airline pilots are renowned for their propensity to bitch. Especially about throwing a bag or just being the hired help.

That having been said, my new flight department seems to be pretty quick to appreciate my level of experience from doing 90 hours a month in crap weather in jets for a couple of years.

So what all this means is that you have to shake hands and do lunches whenever possible. Offer to do some fill in work and call in sick to the airline gig if you have to..........let them know you're not just another airline punk. And if you are.......DON'T TRY TO FOOL THEM.

 

[g159av8tor]

While on coffee break at various Flight Safety training events, I've heard and had many conversations with corporate DOs, CPs, etc. going into verbose tirades about how selfish airline pilots are with their anti-company mentality and that being the primary reason their resumes get tossed.

Quality and quantity of time are always qualifying concerns when hiring pilots. So are character (read work ethic) and personality, to name two. That proves many responses in this thread that a good word from a friend or colleague can go far to dispell any "airline stink" from a resume and get the right attention from a hiring manager.

Tailwinds...

 

[LegacyDriver]

In defense of airline pilots--having been there and done that--the attitude problem is a byproduct of the system. At the airlines a pilot is an easily replaceable number. Dumping you just let's the company replace you with someone several years' longevity cheaper.

I had my guard up at first on this side of the fence, too. When I realized I was an individual and not a number my attitude changed.

I think airline pilots for the most part would come around if exposed to this less adversarial culture we enjoy.

It is refreshing to have a boss who never questions your integrity. He knows I am honest because he knows me--he doesn't have to glance at my ID to know who I am.

 

["GO AROUND"]

In defense of airline pilots--having been there and done that--the attitude problem is a byproduct of the system. At the airlines a pilot is an easily replaceable number. Dumping you just let's the company replace you with someone several years' longevity cheaper.

I had my guard up at first on this side of the fence, too. When I realized I was an individual and not a number my attitude changed.

I think airline pilots for the most part would come around if exposed to this less adversarial culture we enjoy.

It is refreshing to have a boss who never questions your integrity. He knows I am honest because he knows me--he doesn't have to glance at my ID to know who I am.

Ditto. That's the major reason I am looking at getting out as well. Tired of the lack of professionalism on both sides.

 

[Swaayze]

Agree. Two very different jobs IMO. I am at a point where I'm more or less embarrassed to tell people I'm an airline pilot. The way I let myself be treated/compensated, not to mention the way we tend to treat our customers, here is embarrassing (and yes, my fault alone). I would like to find a good corporate job as well, where I'm valued for my experience, integrity and work ethic. I would have no problem with the customer service portions of the job (bags, drinks, making arrangements, etc) because it would be a position that includes those duties and I would have a chance to actually make a difference. That said, the very few nibbles I've had in the corp. world have been open about their general lack of enthusiasm for airline types so I'm not holding my breath, but I'll keep trying!