121 to corporate - what's the secret?

[Gulfstream 200]

Send out a lot of resume's and update them regularly.

Pound on doors at the local airport.

When my (second) airline furloughed I hit every corporate operator in town. I eventually found one that brought me on as a fill-in SIC. Not only did the experience prove to me that corporate was the best way to go, it got Corporate EXPETINCE into my resume' over airline stuff. That as much as anything helped land my current job.

LD said it better than me!

Get the last job on your resume to be a corp/charter gig. Until then you will look like a regional pilot. Even part time SIC fill in work will look a lot better.

I also second the "be persistant" thing. Any Chief Pilot you would want to work for has been out on the streets looking for work at one time in his life and will understand.

Dont underestimate contacts made here also. I have passed along a handful of resumes from guys here to my employer, as they were well qualified guys. Most got interviews.

another suggestion - FSI as an instructor. I have no idea what the requirements are today, but many contacts are made there. Best perk IMHO- as an instructor there you get a feel for the outfits you would want to avoid.

Heck, some of the dorkiest guys who post here on the corp board are FSI instructors! DOH!

good luck

 

["GO AROUND"]

no offense in the least, but certainly ratings in a few corp type aircraft help...having ratings in a J41, EMB120, or CL65 wont carry much weight. I personally think its fine - says to me a guy is a Captain, but people want to see corp types.

bottom line, build your resume to look NON-AIRLINE as much as possible.

I think location is a HUGE factor. You have to be where the jobs are - simply more chances. If there are 5 corp jets in your area as compared to 500 around say NY or LA (or wherever) it obvious you have a better chance..

good luck of course!

I wish I could make my resume look like that, but it's not really an option. I am trying to use my family connection/name to get my foot in the door. I had my resume walked in to the desk of a fortune 500 department manager that liked my qualifications. Now I'm waiting to hear from them when they expand. We'll see.

 

[g159av8tor]

121 Stink

Getting the stink off isn't that difficult if you're not an ass. Connections and persistence are the key. Of course more of the former will get you more of the latter. I'm one of two ex-airline converts in my gig (IDE and UAL).

I thank the aviation gods everyday for my current opportunity.

 

[LegacyDriver]

Amen to that.

I grumble and complain about some things but this job was a major blessing.

I should probably point out that movement WITHIN corporate is tough even for guys already doing it. There are few opportunities and lots of folks chasing them.

It sounds stupid but... In your Sunday School Lessons you recall how birds don't worry about where they will eat -- God takes care of them. To put it simply -- regardless your religious stand...I think everyone winds up in the job where they belong. You can help the process along with effort, but every closed door is actually a nudge in the right direction. Once you get there you realize why the "no" answers were the best favor ever...

I also believe in the law of averages. If you ask enough times you will get a "yes" somewhere.

Follow up regularly unless you are told to go away. Resume's that are not updated are taken as a sign of non-interest (i.e. "He already got a job.").









I hope it works out for you.

 

[AZ Typed]

no offense in the least, but certainly ratings in a few corp type aircraft help...having ratings in a J41, EMB120, or CL65 wont carry much weight. I personally think its fine - says to me a guy is a Captain, but people want to see corp types.

bottom line, build your resume to look NON-AIRLINE as much as possible.

I think location is a HUGE factor. You have to be where the jobs are - simply more chances. If there are 5 corp jets in your area as compared to 500 around say NY or LA (or wherever) it obvious you have a better chance..

good luck of course!

Can someone please explain to me why an EMB-120/170 or CRJ rating and flight time is not valuable? CRJs are being converted to corporate more and more. So why does your time in the airplane that involves flying something configured for 50 people or something configured for 10 matter so much when it comes to experience, since both aircraft are virtualy the same? Aside from having the "people" skills, jet time is jet time is jet time - you can train almost anyone to fly one of these things. So how can jet time NOT be valuable? I don't care if you're flying a Lear 35 or a 747 - the principals are the same and you can train almost anyone to do it, but in corporate world - 747 time might not be valuable - strange. The corporate guys brag about never flying. And here you have 121 guys flying a lot in all kinds of weather with all kinds of people, yet that experience isn't valuable to a corporate flight department who is responsible for flying VIPs who are "worth" much more than 125 whining people on A&E's Airline. Having been on both sides, 121, 91, & 135 - I just don't see why airline FLIGHT time isn't valuable. My 121 training and flight time taught me so much more than any 91 or 135 flying I've done. I dread flying in weather and busy airspace with some of the 135 folks I've flown with. That's not to say all 135/91 "stink" but the 121 guys seem to consitantly know the game better - yet the 121 experience is not valuable. What am I missing (DISCLAIMER: No sarcasm or offense meant in this post)

AZT

 

[MissKittyKat]

Cubicle, I would like to respond and offer hope. I went from being a 121s F/A to a corporate F/A. Gulfstream and many others responded and all good stuff.

Blood/sweat/tears/ hard work, your dedication, your focus, and your dreams and ambitions can be attained. Try to network with as many people as you can. As a corporate F/a I just passed down a five day trip and handed to someone else who really needed the job. Do some research, and write down exactly what would be good for you and go from there.

The aviation industry has changed over the years, but still you can make a career here or do it for fun. Have you ever been to a large scale convention, where the opportunity to pass your business card, and meet others at an optimal time, this an opportunity as well.

Check every single website daily, do an online profile for every Fortune 500 company, say one a day, they will automatically send you matching opportunities. Every door is open, but it takes time.

Good Luck.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Can someone please explain to me why an EMB-120/170 or CRJ rating and flight time is not valuable? CRJs are being converted to corporate more and more.
AZT

yeah?? guess Im missing the CRJ converted corporate jets out there cloggin up FL 290 across the Atlantic...

:erm:

410 IT DUDE!


no, really, I suppose no flight time is "invaluable" - its just that all all airline regional resume is not liklely going to compare to a resume with a corp/charter background. That is all that was meant. Decent jobs will always have a large selection of candidates, you have to look better than the rest.

Check the regional board. Dr Maartens, IPODs, and the " F**k the pax, I'll act professional when I get paid to" attitude dosen't work in most corp outfits. Ask any of them -- they would never lower themselves to "carry some jerkoffs briefcase and clean $hitters like corp dudes".....aiiight.

but yeah, we sport the Docs, Ipods, and backpacks too!......when we hit the hotel, not in front of the pax.



any more questions? just check the Kats post above. She has it nailed.

 

[LXJ31]

The issue isn't usually flying time, its the depth of experience. That may sound like BS but hear me out.

Most corporate outfits are staffed by people who have done lots of different things in and out of aviation. Most (alert: generalizations ahead) people who send in a resume with a boatload of CRJ or ERJ time are probably A: 25-33 yrs old B: Went from something like a C-172 to PA-44 to RJ in a couple years C: Haven't done alot of single pilot ops in crap weather (not that its anything special, but some of the people doing the hiring probably did) D: Are not as likely to have a college degree (can matter to alot of HR departments.)

Problem with A is that there is an unspoken bias against "young whippersnappers" in corporate ops especially, but no exclusively, in the higher end. I'm relatively young and I got hired by the skin of my teeth at our outfit. The only reason they gave me a shot is my having a relatively rare type rating and experience in a certain jet. I had several interviews over a couple days with different people and departments; dinner and drinks etc. I managed not to pick my nose, hit on the owner's daughters or spout my political leanings and made it to the final "chat" with the big boss. He later said he shot me down in the first five minutes but changed his mind toward the end when I apparently (and unknowingly) said the right thing at the right time. But I'm convinced he wouldn't have been so inclined to give me a thumbs down if I had been few years older and looked much, much older. (Kind of fresh-faced over here....)

Problem with B and C is that many of the people who pick out resumes and referrals are older pilots who, early on in their own careers, were flying crappy airplanes for pencil-whipping shady outfits in all sorts of unusual situations. Maybe they flew in different regions of the world; our CP, among other things, flew in Saudi during the 70's and has some stories that would curl your hair. Bottom line, if your career hasn't had much color to it yet other than training in sunny Florida and then flying from EWR to IAD five times a day for a few years, some of these DOs and CPs may not be able to relate very well. I'm not saying its right or wrong, but put yourself in their shoes.

Problem with D is that the hiring standards at most places that operate RJs do not require postsecondary education. There is an ongoing debate regarding this topic on another thread so I won't rehash it here but the short and sweet is, anything that can separate you from the pack is a good thing. That, and many corporations have HR departments that wouldn't understand NOT requiring flight crews to have college degrees.

Combine ABCD and that is a general stereotypical view of how the corporate world may look at a pilot with 5000 hours of CRJ time and little else. Also, long-time corporate pilots don't really want to work with someone who may have willingly and enthusiastically agreed to fly jets as a professional for poverty wages. The thinking is "this guy was flying an RJ for $40k a year and now he's sitting next to me. He probably took the first offer they threw at him...Because of his example, I'm not going to get another raise for a long, long time...." I've got friends who fly for regionals so I'm careful not to denigrate the regionals as a whole. Remember the above are just generalities. Please forward any hate-mail to Gulfstream 200, he likes it.

 

[AA717driver]

The ONLY reason I got hired into Pt. 91 is because a friend worked there, has a good rep and went to bat for me.

Being a DC9 Capt. at a major with >10k hours and 4 bucks will get you a Vente at Starbucks. That's just the way it is.

Another issue is that during the furloughs during GW1 a lot of corporate outfits hired airline guys who swore they wouldn't go back. Recall letter came and the door didn't hit them in the a$$. Now, they are more hesitant. We furloughees are a little more savvy these days and are less likely to leave a good gig to go back to the mothership.

Bite the bullet, get typed at a 135 gig, hang around here and network at the FBO's and one day your ship will come in. Good luck.TC

 

[LXJ31]

Another issue is that during the furloughs during GW1 a lot of corporate outfits hired airline guys who swore they wouldn't go back. Recall letter came and the door didn't hit them in the a$$.

There is that too...forgot about that one.