1108 Union Leadership Abandons Hostages

[SecondSegment]

Of the three avitars, the babe had the best headlights. That was a pretty good one, as avitars go.

Anyone that knows about the movement, knows that it's on the down low. The only reason that they know is because they can keep it that way. It's not really a matter of balls or bashing. When we get 161, it's a new game.

 

[Ludicrous Speed]

S-

"management knows about it and is welcoming it"

Really? If you believe in any type of union, why would you write this phrase? Why in the world would anyone, who even marginly supports ANY type of union effort, care for one second what management "welcomes"?. Since 2005, flops' mgmt (including scab tyler, schreek, & ricci) have done everything to delay and derail first a union, and now a contract.

Do I believe the marker bros, jlh, cg, je, and a few vocal others whisper in scab tylers' ears that they have a "group of FO pilots"? Sure and so what? They've been whispering to each other for years. But, hey keep posting, because it only reveals your desperation. The contract is gonna get done in the next couple months no matter how much you talk of decertification or an impotent in-house.

 

[shanes123]

Hey Ludicrous Idiot..I just stated a fact..They know about and have encouraged it..I didnt say I encouraged a inhouse..You Union guys better pull your heads out of the sand or your @SSES..There is a group of pilots that think they can pull this off..And you are foolish to ignore it..They have spoke to management, they have a web site, And most of the pilots left at flops are Kool Aide drinkers..If management can delay your contract any longer..( Which they have been very succesful at so far) IBT is going to find themselves out in the cold..And the Pilots at flops will get what ever carrot manage may or may not give you..There once was a little company that all the big companies laughed at..That little company could never be a threat to Sears, Kmart..Well before you know it..that little company..(WALMART) quickly stomped all over those big bad companies..And they were to stupid to see it..I see IBT making the same mistake here..

 

[Ludicrous Speed]

Find 3 acronyms here

FOPA – Flight Options Pilot Association – (2005) – name given to a proposed in-house union at Options. Anti-union sentiment (in the form of Anti-Teamsters sentiment) was propagated and this half-hearted announcement was emailed, via the company-issued Blackberry, to every pilot. No actions were taken against the pilot(s) who wrote and/or emailed the anonymous proposal, even after statements issued by management specifically prohibited the use of company issued Blackberries for union-related emails. A few days later, the Word attachment to the email revealed the author of the proposal to be a company ground instructor. The discredited FOPA proposal immediately became known as the “faux pas”.

(Faux pas – French literature - false setup / a social blunder; error in etiquette; tactless act or remark - from Webster’s New World College Dictionary).

There’s more to this story:

Do an internet search on the Teamsters and you could pretty easily come up with links to the mob and corruption and violence: The Teamsters are not without their faults. Next however (and in all fairness), do a search on the LAPD, or the Republican Party, or the Democratic Party, or Hollywood, or the US Government and you can find similar stories. The point: No organization is without fault. But, if you don’t want a union on property, deflect your negativity towards the popular Teamsters. Say, “It’s not that we don't want a union; we just don’t like the Teamsters. We think they’re icky and not in YOUR best interest!”

(That’s the part I like the best: management telling me what they think is in my best interest. DILLIGAF! – Do I Look Like I Give A F--- !)

But be sure to offer the alternative of an in-house union. Yes, there are a couple that work…… A couple - each individually with thousands of dues paying members. Without the financial support, an in-house is impotent and nothing more than a puppet. (Do a quick search on this forum and you’ll get all the reasons why an in-house is doomed from its inception.)

The FOPA “contract” was ridiculously short. It had some flashy titles and a couple paragraphs that sounded legally binding, but compared to the 30 section, 221 page Netjets contract, the proposal was, well, ludicrous. A thorough, well-worded, and legally binding contract is just as important as the financial support.

Finally, the author or propagator of the FOPA email: He was a pilot/ground instructor at Options and had recently returned to the company after (what I believe was) a life-threatening traffic accident: i.e. lots of hospital bills and time off recovering.

I admit I don’t know most of the details surrounding his accident or even his own personal life and conduct. What I believe (and take this as conjecture only) is this: He may have felt empathy towards Options because of his experience and he may have felt he was acting with good intentions. He most likely was not writing alone and he was probably coached into writing and soliciting the faux pas email.

If you want to learn how middle managers, program managers, supervisors, and instructors are coached, read a chapter called “World Airways” from CUB – Confessions of a Union Buster – Martin Levitt’s 1993 book about his years as a “labor relations management consultant”.

“But then I explained how it worked, how we wouldn’t hold back, we would just make department managers and supervisors do it for us. Then the cruel smiles appeared. That was even better. Let them rape each other.” Levitt, Martin Jay. Confessions of a Union Buster. Crown Publisher, Inc., New York, 1993, p. 94.

 

[shanes123]

S-

"management knows about it and is welcoming it"

Really? If you believe in any type of union, why would you write this phrase? Why in the world would anyone, who even marginly supports ANY type of union effort, care for one second what management "welcomes"?. Since 2005, flops' mgmt (including scab tyler, schreek, & ricci) have done everything to delay and derail first a union, and now a contract.

Do I believe the marker bros, jlh, cg, je, and a few vocal others whisper in scab tylers' ears that they have a "group of FO pilots"? Sure and so what? They've been whispering to each other for years. But, hey keep posting, because it only reveals your desperation. The contract is gonna get done in the next couple months no matter how much you talk of decertification or an impotent in-house.

I have no Idea what all that nonsense you wrote has to do with my post??? Maybe you should go into politics..You said alot..But didnt say SH*T

 

[Ludicrous Speed]

S.-

Name Calling? Really?? What’s next… racial epitaphs? And we haven’t even held hands!

But seriously, I’ve read most of your posts and I have a difficult time discerning what side you’re on.

You wrote: “I didn’t say I encouraged an inhouse… You Union guys…”…. Are you pro-union or anti-union? Are you pro-1108 or anti-1108? Either way, speak your mind. But back it up with something substantial…something I can believe in and give serious thought to.

Is there a group of FO pilots trying to get a decertification vote out? Can’t say for sure, but “absolutely fact”? OK.

Let me ask you this: A few years ago, there was a small fringe group that made some noise trying to impeach President Bush. (There is still a website at impeachbush.org.) And last summer, you probably heard of the “Birthers” who were advocating President Obama’s Presidency was illegitimate. Both groups were comparatively tiny; not small, but tiny. But, they made some noise. So what?

No matter what your own political leanings, what would you have done if you were either Bush or Obama and you had some extremists calling for your head? It’s simple: You keep an eye on them, you let them squawk as loud and as long as they want and you let them p*** away all they’re time and financial resources! The President has to focus on the j-o-b at hand and not on a fringe extremist group that’s screaming the sky is falling!

Same thing here. If bt, or the marker bros, or jlh, or cg, or je or even you is calling for the end of the 1108, well… OK. Let them. Go Ahead. That’s they’re prerogative and yours as well.

But if you’re really for a strong union, get involved with the IBT now. It’s not like you need to arrange a 100 million dollar presidential campaign. Pick up the phone and volunteer.

As for “most of the pilots left at flops are Kool Aide drinkers….” Didn’t 90 percent of the MIGS (members in good standing – another acronym!) vote in favor of a strike? 90 percent! Have some faith, s, that the 1108 is going to get this contract done.

 

[shanes123]

Ludy..I am not longer with Flops..But there are moles inside management that I know..They play the game..So my info is usually very accurate..I am not on a side since I dont have a horse in this race..Would I like to see some of my old friends get a good contract?? YES..It would help all us fractional pilots..Do I think IBT is doing a good job???? NO..Do I think management will out smart IBT???? good chance of it..I have posted the warning because I find this to be a credible threat..That FOPA you spoke of didnt have a chance in hell of getting off the ground back then..But there are pilots and management at Flops that seem to think they can get enough pilots to decertify 1108 with there promise of a quick contract..And theres enough fools and Koolaide drinkers there that would jump at something like that..When I find out there web adress I will send you a personal message..And you can make your own conclusions if 1108 has something to worry about...

 

[William Holiday]

Trying to start a unioun, that no one has heard about ??? Even a website ??? to make it look ligit, Good Gawd !! what other FUD is being pumped out of the turd tube.
I think the FUD machine is working hard before the start of negotiations toward the end of the month.

Fire Away.

 

[shanes123]

ludicrious...believe me now???

 

[dime line]

Ludy..I am not longer with Flops..But there are moles inside management that I know..They play the game..So my info is usually very accurate..I am not on a side since I dont have a horse in this race..Would I like to see some of my old friends get a good contract?? YES..It would help all us fractional pilots..Do I think IBT is doing a good job???? NO..Do I think management will out smart IBT???? good chance of it..I have posted the warning because I find this to be a credible threat..That FOPA you spoke of didnt have a chance in hell of getting off the ground back then..But there are pilots and management at Flops that seem to think they can get enough pilots to decertify 1108 with there promise of a quick contract..And theres enough fools and Koolaide drinkers there that would jump at something like that..

When I find out there web adress I will send you a personal message.

.And you can make your own conclusions if 1108 has something to worry about...

why does this have to be a secret?