Leave Netjets...

[crjdude]

As a 15+ year guy I'm weighing my options.

Would you ride the Netjets contract negotiations out or abandon ship and try and head for a Major?

For the record I have always enjoyed this job...

Really a shame what the current management is doing to what once was a truly great company.

Thanks

crjdude

 

[johnsonrod]

As a 15+ year guy I'm weighing my options.

Would you ride the Netjets contract negotiations out or abandon ship and try and head for a Major?

For the record I have always enjoyed this job...

Really a shame what the current management is doing to what once was a truly great company.

Thanks

crjdude

How much longer will the contract negotiations take - 2+ years? Do you want to wait that long? Doesn't hurt to apply to the majors and see how it goes. My opinion: if you get picked up by Delta you leave for Delta with the great profit sharing and benefits. Beyond that it would be your choice. Doesn't hurt to apply and see how it goes...

 

[BlueNose]

As a 15+ year guy I'm weighing my options.

Would you ride the Netjets contract negotiations out or abandon ship and try and head for a Major?

For the record I have always enjoyed this job...

Really a shame what the current management is doing to what once was a truly great company.

Thanks

crjdude

In my opinion the Frax industry peaked about 2007. Since the recession hit, the changes in the industry have led to the commoditization of our product and the charter operators becoming the growth segment in private lift. And they pay crap wages, rely on airplane owners to subsidize their capital costs, and mostly don't mind breaking regs to get the job done. How will the Frax compete on price? I think we'll continue to see downward pressure on wages and benefits, longer duty days and a deteriorating product. And so we've seen the rise of CEO's willing to push those measures.

With the majors in what looks like a sustained growth and hiring period and the promise of higher pay after 5-6 years, if you're young enough to recoup the initial loss and your family situation can take it, why would anyone not make the jump if able? They're hiring guys into their late 40's now. If this had happened 5 years ago, I'd be gone without a 2nd look back. But with kids coming up on college the math doesn't work for my family. So it depends on your circumstances. But for anyone who is in a position to do it, I would say leave now while the getting is good. The Frax biz used to be a lot of fun, and the flying was great, but the days just seem to get longer and the money doesn't get better. I only see that getting worse over the next several years, no matter how hard the pilot group fights. Sad, but it is what it is. Our job is to make the best of it and take care of our families. Anyway, that's my 2₵.

 

[fischman]

You are senior to me. Go and don't look back.

Seriously, morale is low right now solely BECAUSE of the negotiations. As soon as the CBA is finished and Hansell is gone it will get better again. In the mean time, own the process, fly your trips one leg at a time, and don't let the micro-managing get to you. It's the game. However, at this time, if you get hired at a place like Delta I can't see looking back and saying, "This was a huge mistake." It's a great airline.

Remember, the grass is always greener on the other side because it is well fertilized with bullcrap.

 

[Semore Butts]

What Johnsonrod said, and fishman.

Put in, you have no decision to make until you get a job offer. I have been telling this to all young guys I meet.
What would be really nice is if you get the job offer just after the contract is signed. (Of course that may be awhile, and it may make the decision harder? But hey, what a great position to be in!)
I wish I was younger (58), I would be applying as well.
Oh, and you are senior to me so go for it!:beer:

take care, Semore

 

[Hawkered]

As a 15+ year guy I'm weighing my options.

Would you ride the Netjets contract negotiations out or abandon ship and try and head for a Major?

For the record I have always enjoyed this job...

Really a shame what the current management is doing to what once was a truly great company.

Thanks

crjdude

If you have 15 years or more to make a major, I'd go.

 

[Mooneymite]

I've done both major and NetJets.

As far as pay, corporate culture and quality of life, NetJets sucks.

The flying is pretty fun...as long as you stay away from the bureaucracy.

Unless you are willing to give up a lot to fly little jets, GO!

You'll wonder why you didn't go a long time ago.

 

[gunfyter]

If you have 15 years or more to make a major, I'd go.

Agreed.

 

[crjdude]

Trying to decide if the initial cut in pay, commuting, etc... is worth the strain on my family.

Still can't believe I'm even considering returning to the airlines after 15 years here.

Thought I was done.

Thanks for the replies.

crjdude

 

[Downwind]

I recently left NJA for a 121 and haven't been happier. Good luck in your decision.

 

[BentOver]

Trying to decide if the initial cut in pay, commuting, etc... is worth the strain on my family.

Still can't believe I'm even considering returning to the airlines after 15 years here.

Thought I was done.

Thanks for the replies.

crjdude

No offense, but if your comparing previous regional 121 life to a possible Legacy 121 life... Stop comparing

That is the problem with a lot of pilots at NJA.. Regional life left a bad taste in their mouth. But they are insane if they think Legacy life will mirror their former regional life.

 

[pilotyip]

You will know at the end of your career if you made the right decision, wither the decision is to leave or stay. I look at my highly qualified squadron mates and the moves they made. Like leaving DAL fro Pam Am in 1968, FedEx for Braniff I in 1978 , it folded in 1982. We had another guy bail from GM Corp in 1979 for Braniff; he would have been at GM through the glory years. How about all the guys who bailed from SWA, UPS and FedEx for the major jobs at DAL, AAL, UAL etc in 2000. You just never know.

 

[jonjuan]

You will know at the end of your career if you made the right decision, wither the decision is to leave or stay. I look at my highly qualified squadron mates and the moves they made. Like leaving DAL fro Pam Am in 1968, FedEx for Braniff I in 1978 , it folded in 1982. We had another guy bail from GM Corp in 1979 for Braniff; he would have been at GM through the glory years. How about all the guys who bailed from SWA, UPS and FedEx for the major jobs at DAL, AAL, UAL etc in 2000. You just never know.

Point? Please tell us you have one with your silly stories.

 

[pilotyip]

Point? Please tell us you have one with your silly stories.

No silly stories here, just a long record of pilots chasing the green grass on the other side of the fence only to find it is green because there is a lot of cow droppings on the other side of the fence. A lot of planned fantastic career moves, well turn out to be well, not so fantastic, did you get the point this time?

 

[Diesel]

Point? Please tell us you have one with your silly stories.

There never is a point. Just to say how bad unions are because they cause the demise of everything.

 

[Choppy]

It's funny to hear the stories of guys who left or were furloughed from the majors in 2008~ say that Netjets was awesome and a place to stay for the remainder of career. Now that the majors are turning around it's the opposite.

 

[gunfyter]

It was once ...

 

[T-1GUY]

Netjets is not the same company that I used to love...

 

[jonjuan]

There never is a point. Just to say how bad unions are because they cause the demise of everything.

Or that every decision is a crapshoot based on his/her long record of what his couple of friends did. If everyone listened to him, no one would leave Mesa for spirit. Lololol....

 

[pilotyip]

Or that every decision is a crapshoot based on his/her long record of what his couple of friends did. If everyone listened to him, no one would leave Mesa for spirit. Lololol....

Leaving a good job with lots of seniority can have a down side to it. But what you are saying is no one should listen to someone saying their might be a downside. Kinda like the Captain of the Titanic ignoring calls about icebergs.

 

[G4dude]

There never is a point. Just to say how bad unions are because they cause the demise of everything.

That was NOT Yip's point at all.

 

[HiSpeedFlyer]

Leaving a good job with lots of seniority can have a down side to it. But what you are saying is no one should listen to someone saying their might be a downside. Kinda like the Captain of the Titanic ignoring calls about icebergs.

Seriously.... dont go away mad... just go away.

 

[Diesel]

That was NOT Yip's point at all.

Actually it was.

 

[J.Otto]

How important are internal recs to get interviewed/hired at Netjets.

 

[T-1GUY]

Do you have a pulse ?

 

[wacoflyr]

You say that. The rumor mill on the outside says that your pipeline is full, that the sims are all going full blast just managing recurrents and the newhires that are already on property. I know one guy who got through initial and is sitting at home playing golf waiting to go to work. Has been for weeks, due to a lack of IOE captains. And the interview is no gimme.

I have yet to have the pleasure of an interview, but two pilots that I know have. They are both excellent, exceptional pilots, with great customers service skills, and they couldn't even get to the second day. Several of us have discussed this, and we can't see any pattern-at all! Great guys get hired; great guys can't get a sim eval. Truly crappy pilots get hired; truly crappy pilots bust the sim. It makes no sense that we can see.

I can't even get a phone call. I know, I know, but I really do have the experience that you want (closing in on 9,000 hours, 1000 hours pic turbine, college degree and no skeletons) and two internal recs. Not so much as a phone call.

It could be that I just suck, but I hear that you guys just can't get past the sim bottleneck and train everybody.

Don't get me wrong. I'm on your side, and wish you guys the very best in your negotiations. And yes, there is a pilot shortage developing. But in my opinion, that shortage has not struck NetJets pilot recruiting. Not yet.

 

[jtf]

There are many great candidates not getting hired probably for one big reason- they are probably showing some sort of spine on the interview and the company is afraid they will toe the union line more than they will be willing to overlook little things like grounding items, calling in fatigued or sick when actually fatigued or sick, or maybe they won't be willing to extend at every opportunity. I haven't talked to or met any of those who have been hired so I hope I'm wrong or that they played the interview well and will not toe the company line. Those running the interviews are definitely not the people the union would prefer.

 

[BentOver]

From the small sample size from FI, 2500-4000 hrs seems to be a popular range for new hires.... Just experienced enough to know what they are doing. Not quite "experienced" enough to punch a ticket to anywhere they choose.

 

[Mooneymite]

Several of us have discussed this, and we can't see any pattern-at all!.

NetJets uses the self-disqualifying method of selection:

If you apply for a NetJets pilot job under the present conditions, you are nuts.

Nuts are disqualified from pilot positions.

Ergo: If you want the job, you won't get it.

Only pilots who don't want to work at NetJets need apply.

Nuts may be hired as managers, but not as pilots.

Does this help?

 

[Semore Butts]

It looks like you have been missing alot of work lately?

Well, I wouldn't say I've been missing it.

As far as the new hires? They will be foaming at the mouth within 6 months I'm sure.

Or to put it another way? From the movie Overboard shortly before Curt put Goldie in the rain barrel;
"Blub, blub, blub, blub"!!!!!!!!

Have fun everybody! enjoy the bonfire!!!!!!

When I was a young boy I wanted to run away and join the circus!! And now I have!!!!!!

I could go on and on!!!!!!

Whenever I call Brigeway and they put me on hold I don't here the old "rolling blues", I hear the circus song!!! (Doo do do do do do doot doot doit, Doo do do do do do doot doot dgdoit).

I don't fault my fellow line level employees at Brigeway, I feel bad for them.