Do you mean to tell me....

[B190Captain]

Delta does not pay for hotel during training?

YHGTBSM!!!

I thought crap like this was over.

 

[daviator]

Not entirely true. I start training next. Positive pass to training and hotel is paid for. YMMV.

 

[B190Captain]

Not entirely true. I start training next. Positive pass to training and hotel is paid for. YMMV.

Oh ok. Good to hear it. Congrats!

 

[dicko]

Not entirely true. I start training next. Positive pass to training and hotel is paid for until I finish Indoc, then I'm on my ownYMMV.

Fixed it for you. Congrats on the job. Your timing is excellent.

 

[J.Otto]

http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/major/81130-delta-training-crash-pad.html

 

[B190Captain]

Fixed it for you. Congrats on the job. Your timing is excellent.

Oh so it is true. How much time in training after indoc?

 

[General Lee]

Oh so it is true. How much time in training after indoc?

A newhire does have to pay for hotel or crash pads after Indoc currently. If the sim happens to be somewhere else other than ATL (some 717 sims are done in MIA), then the company picks that up plus per diem.

This was brought up by the union in the latest contract survey. One of the questions asked if that should be changed via upcoming negotiations, meaning it's on their radar.

While you're at it, look up newhire pay at all 3 legacies. DL's is $68 an hour now (as per APC), and will increase to $71 an hour Jan 1st. AA's is $40 an hour, and UA's is $66. DL also gets profit sharing (AA doesn't), along with UA, but UA hasn't had very profitable quarters earlier this year. That may change due to lower oil, which will be good for everyone.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[B190Captain]

A newhire does have to pay for hotel or crash pads after Indoc currently. If the sim happens to be somewhere else other than ATL (some 717 sims are done in MIA), then the company picks that up plus per diem.

This was brought up by the union in the latest contract survey. One of the questions asked if that should be changed via upcoming negotiations, meaning it's on their radar.

While you're at it, look up newhire pay at all 3 legacies. DL's is $68 an hour now (as per APC), and will increase to $71 an hour Jan 1st. AA's is $40 an hour, and UA's is $66. DL also gets profit sharing (AA doesn't), along with UA, but UA hasn't had very profitable quarters earlier this year. That may change due to lower oil, which will be good for everyone.



Bye Bye---General Lee

What does pay have anything to do with it? It's more of a matter of principle. Delta wants the pick of the litter but yet makes a great first impression by getting cheapy on them. Pretty lame, IMO.

 

[General Lee]

What does pay have anything to do with it? It's more of a matter of principle. Delta wants the pick of the litter but yet makes a great first impression by getting cheapy on them. Pretty lame, IMO.

True, but then pays people a lot more money, and has profit sharing (AA doesn't) and better management than anyone else. So, even though that policy is there and needs changing (which may happen), the rest is a lot better. SWA still requires a type rating if you don't have it already, which costs 4 times more. So, you need to take all that into account. If you can't see the big picture overall, I can't help you.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[B190Captain]

True, but then pays people a lot more money, and has profit sharing (AA doesn't) and better management than anyone else. So, even though that policy is there and needs changing (which may happen), the rest is a lot better. SWA still requires a type rating if you don't have it already, which costs 4 times more. So, you need to take all that into account. If you can't see the big picture overall, I can't help you.


Bye Bye---General Lee

I agree. I am just disappointed that this kind of crap is still going on and for a mega carrier such as Delta it was unexpected news.

 

[Kharma Police]

Does Delta reimburse you for the "Africa shots" that are now a pre requisite to have before training? What if you have complications?

 

[SpauldingSmails]

Does Delta reimburse you for the "Africa shots" that are now a pre requisite to have before training? What if you have complications?

Initial shot for yellow fever is on your own dime, reimbursed for subsequent vaccines. If you're allergic to eggs, you can be exempted from the requirement.

 

[ATRCA]

A newhire does have to pay for hotel or crash pads after Indoc currently. If the sim happens to be somewhere else other than ATL (some 717 sims are done in MIA), then the company picks that up plus per diem.

This was brought up by the union in the latest contract survey. One of the questions asked if that should be changed via upcoming negotiations, meaning it's on their radar.

While you're at it, look up newhire pay at all 3 legacies. DL's is $68 an hour now (as per APC), and will increase to $71 an hour Jan 1st. AA's is $40 an hour, and UA's is $66. DL also gets profit sharing (AA doesn't), along with UA, but UA hasn't had very profitable quarters earlier this year. That may change due to lower oil, which will be good for everyone.



Bye Bye---General Lee

90% of this post is noise GL. Honestly, there's no reason for a carrier like DAL which is enjoying well earned prosperity to force new hire pilots to pay for hotels. There is no excuse. That's a slap in the face that DALALPA should not tolerate.

 

[General Lee]

90% of this post is noise GL. Honestly, there's no reason for a carrier like DAL which is enjoying well earned prosperity to force new hire pilots to pay for hotels. There is no excuse. That's a slap in the face that DALALPA should not tolerate.

Agreed, and as I stated that was in the latest pilot contract survey, meaning it's on the radar. Still, the pay afterwards is a lot more than the rest, especially AA.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[ATRCA]

Agreed, and as I stated that was in the latest pilot contract survey, meaning it's on the radar. Still, the pay afterwards is a lot more than the rest, especially AA.



Bye Bye---General Lee

I don't disagree. I was just quite surprised to see that DAL didn't pay for hotel's. I'm confident you guys will correct that.

 

[General Lee]

I don't disagree. I was just quite surprised to see that DAL didn't pay for hotel's. I'm confident you guys will correct that.

Well, I hope so. And to clarify, DL does pay for the first two weeks.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[SIG600]

Agreed, and as I stated that was in the latest pilot contract survey, meaning it's on the radar. Still, the pay afterwards is a lot more than the rest, especially AA.



Bye Bye---General Lee

A new hire at UAL will make 91 hours a month, plus $50/day in per diem, unlimited positive space travel on your days off, all hotel expenses paid... For the duration of training. In the first three months, they've cleared more than a DAL new hire will make all year when accounting for cost of living/PFT.

UAL year 2 pay is higher, guarantee is higher, DC is higher, and there are new hires going to wide bodies in droves.

May want to start there on your next contract.....

 

[General Lee]

A new hire at UAL will make 91 hours a month, plus $50/day in per diem, unlimited positive space travel on your days off, all hotel expenses paid... For the duration of training. In the first three months, they've cleared more than a DAL new hire will make all year when accounting for cost of living/PFT.

UAL year 2 pay is higher, guarantee is higher, DC is higher, and there are new hires going to wide bodies in droves.

May want to start there on your next contract.....

That's a good sell job to get newhires there, hiding other problems that still exist. I like how you state "year 2 is higher pay." What about year 1? Line guarantee at DL is 65 hours, although that hasn't been the case in years. Reserve average at DL is 75.5 hours, which is higher than UAL's 73, and on first year that adds some cash. How is your profit sharing? Your first quarter was a loss as I remember. You might want to start with better management. So far it will be two months pay, with more possible to lower oil.

Your guarantee was always higher, they flew you up to 90 hours every month according to my buddies that are on your 320/319. Prior to your merger it was pretty bad. I'm glad it took your merger to finally fix most of your problems, and your additions to your contract was based off of DL.

If your airline got some decent management that could rally your troops, then it would be even better. Most pilots I know there really don't like Jeff, at all. That's not really the case at DL, most like RA think he's a trend setter that most other airline CEOs follow.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[SIG600]

youre right, first quarter was a loss. Morningstar estimates it was a book keeping strategy for end of year taxes. Couple that with Q3 estimates of $2.7 eps that puts the company at $1.4b. But what's more important... Crediting 85 hours a month and 15-17 days off, on year one.

Yeah, year one pay is higher too... Not eligible for profit sharing until 12 months service.

Two years of profit (in how many years) and you act like the previous 15 never happened.

 

[General Lee]

youre right, first quarter was a loss. Morningstar estimates it was a book keeping strategy for end of year taxes. Couple that with Q3 estimates of $2.7 eps that puts the company at $1.4b. But what's more important... Crediting 85 hours a month and 15-17 days off, on year one.

And that doesn't happen at DL? Guys are getting lines after a couple months, and the pay is higher at DL at year 1. Right now Profit Sharing is at least twice what it was last year (16% of the W2 or 2 months pay), and that could go higher. The first 5% was just paid out to everyone at the company. I'd say that helped a lot of newhires, and that was unexpected. They are eligible for profit sharing year one. And the profit sharing checks ALSO have a DC contrubution. So, a profit sharing check worth two months pay has an additional 15% DC payment. For a $10K profit sharing check (just an arbitrary number) , that's an extra $1500 DC contribution on top of that. I'd say that equals your extra DC percent.

Regardless, I think DL and UA are better choices than AA and the LCCs. And I haven't forgotten about the last 15 years, even though you and I would like to forget the last 10. I'd say the next 20 will be a lot better, hopefully.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[SpauldingSmails]

UAL year 2 pay is higher, guarantee is higher, DC is higher, and there are new hires going to wide bodies ...

I'm not so sure about the second year pay bit.

Just a quick glance at APC shows DAL paying a higher hourly on the 737, narrow body Airbii and 757/767 - unless I'm missing something.


B737 Hourly Range, Step 2
DAL $104-105
UAL $98-102

A319/20/21, Step 2
DAL $101
UAL $98-102

B757/767, Step 2 (exc. 767-400)
DAL $108
UAL $102-104

717 at DAL checks in at $94, the MD88/90 at $98

 

[relief tube]

Still cheaper than paying for a type ride

 

[pave driver]

Agreed, and as I stated that was in the latest pilot contract survey, meaning it's on the radar. Still, the pay afterwards is a lot more than the rest, especially AA.



Bye Bye---General Lee

AA pays for hotel costs the entire time. We will have Delta + 8-10% rates starting December of this year (retro pay if no agreement is made starts December 2014). Newhires will soon see 70+/hour starting rates. You will make far more at AA than Delta as a newhire due to more retirements, movement, career progression and international options in your overall career. Upgrade time and career progression as well as international flying at the world's larget airline will be far superior to Delta. The vocal minority of pilot infighting is severely sensationalized and will not matter nor will newhires be affected. Choose wisely my fellow fliers and do your homework!

 

[General Lee]

AA pays for hotel costs the entire time. We will have Delta + 8-10% rates starting December of this year (retro pay if no agreement is made starts December 2014). Newhires will soon see 70+/hour starting rates. You will make far more at AA than Delta as a newhire due to more retirements, movement, career progression and international options in your overall career. Upgrade time and career progression as well as international flying at the world's larget airline will be far superior to Delta. The vocal minority of pilot infighting is severely sensationalized and will not matter nor will newhires be affected. Choose wisely my fellow fliers and do your homework!

Yes, choose wisely, and hopefully you don't get between an Eastie crew and a Westie crew in some jetway. Things will be said, and you never know what could happen next.

As far as AA pay goes, AA's CEO just offered them Delta +5%, but zero profit sharing and he wanted 81 seat scope (to which the APA said no way). It's interesting that AA doesn't have profit sharing (just out of BK), and Parker doesn't want to give them any. He's trying to quickly get a deal done before DL gets their profit sharing check (now the second of two checks) next Feb 14th. Thanks to huge profits and now even lower oil prices, the DL pilots will AT LEAST get an extra 2 months pay for profit sharing. Two months! (16% of your W2). It may even be more than that because oil has fallen so fast. Will the AA pilots share in any of their extra profits? Uhhhhhhhhhhhhh, noooooooooo.

Choose wisely pilots. Look at pay, profit sharing, bases, management, and internal strife. Right now AA lacks in all of them.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[SIG600]

I'm not so sure about the second year pay bit.

Just a quick glance at APC shows DAL paying a higher hourly on the 737, narrow body Airbii and 757/767 - unless I'm missing something.


B737 Hourly Range, Step 2
DAL $104-105
UAL $98-102

A319/20/21, Step 2
DAL $101
UAL $98-102

B757/767, Step 2 (exc. 767-400)
DAL $108
UAL $102-104

717 at DAL checks in at $94, the MD88/90 at $98

UAL reserve guarantee is 73-76 vice 72 for Delta. Line holder is 70 at UAL vice 65, and UAL trip rig is 3.5:1, meaning way more time home.

In reality, they're all splitting hairs. You can make bank and whore, or kick back and relax on rsv at either and make about the same pay.

As GL likes to point out though for the SWA guys, at UAL there's no slogging out 5 legs a day on any airplane like you do on the MD/717 at 1-1.5 a leg. Even the bus and 73 have some great int'l flying from Central America/Caribbean all the way to Bermuda and Alaska/Canada.

 

[General Lee]

UAL reserve guarantee is 73 vice 65 for Delta. UAL trip rig is 3.5:1 for line holders.

Nobody gets 65 hour lines. There is so much training going on that almost every fleet is short. 85 new hires per month, maybe increasing to 100. New hires are getting lines within a month on most fleets. Starting Nov 1st there is an average day of 5:15, which has added a few hours of credit to most 3 and 4 day trips, helping pilots fill up for the month faster, necessitating the need for more pilots.

And, I want to repeat, I think UA is great airline to work for. If you guys had management you could trust, it would be even better. My friends there don't like Jeff.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[SIG600]

Nobody gets 65 hour lines. There is so much training going on that almost every fleet is short. 85 new hires per month, maybe increasing to 100. New hires are getting lines within a month on most fleets. Starting Nov 1st there is an average day of 5:15, which has added a few hours of credit to most 3 and 4 day trips, helping pilots fill up for the month faster, necessitating the need for more pilots.



Bye Bye---General Lee

Do you just like hang out on here 24/7 waiting for people to respond? You're like lightning, but in a really sad way.

 

[General Lee]

Do you just like hang out on here 24/7 waiting for people to respond? You're like lightning, but in a really sad way.

No, I check in a few times per day, apparently when you do. Sorry I can refute everything you state. Don't get too huffy puffy here.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[pave driver]

Yes, choose wisely, and hopefully you don't get between an Eastie crew and a Westie crew in some jetway. Things will be said, and you never know what could happen next.

As far as AA pay goes, AA's CEO just offered them Delta +5%, but zero profit sharing and he wanted 81 seat scope (to which the APA said no way). It's interesting that AA doesn't have profit sharing (just out of BK), and Parker doesn't want to give them any. He's trying to quickly get a deal done before DL gets their profit sharing check (now the second of two checks) next Feb 14th. Thanks to huge profits and now even lower oil prices, the DL pilots will AT LEAST get an extra 2 months pay for profit sharing. Two months! (16% of your W2). It may even be more than that because oil has fallen so fast. Will the AA pilots share in any of their extra profits? Uhhhhhhhhhhhhh, noooooooooo.

Choose wisely pilots. Look at pay, profit sharing, bases, management, and internal strife. Right now AA lacks in all of them.



Bye Bye---General Lee

To all aspiring to move on to one of the big 3 look down the road 10,20,30 years. You will be better off if you go to AA. Look at the big picture. Research the retirements. Look at the future debt obligations. Research the bases you may hold after your first year. AA bases are far superior to Delta's bases. Do you really want to raise a family in Atlanta? Sorry to offend my mates, to each their own of course. Earning maddog FO pay for a decade on 4-day trips over the weekend vs. 3-day trips on an airbus to great destinations. Delta trips to Montgomery, AL!?! F-NO! AA trips to all the Caribbean islands such as Montego Bay, Jamaica...uh YES! Upgrade on an Airbus in 6 years vs. upgrade on a Maddog in 12+ years? Is that really a choice my young lads? That alone could cost you hundreds of thousands of $. Choose wisely. Please look at the BIG picture and not a current snapshot of the present airline contracts.

 

[Jim]

Everyone is bitching about new hire pay & hotels. But where is that money going to come from?

Management is more than willing to pay new hires more and reimburse hotels in the next contract. They will just take it out of other compensation increases going to the pilot group. What pilot group is going to accept less for guys not even hired yet?

Some say that management should pay new hires better without taking from the pilot group's compensation as they want to attract the best candidates. But with the large number of applicants for each pilot slot, management doesn't see this as a problem. So once again it comes to the fact management will want to offset increases from other areas of the pilot contract and you won't get existing pilots willing to take the hit. Or the existing pilots will say if there is extra money available it should go to them, not guys who have not been hired yet.

I'm not saying this is right or wrong, I'm just playing devil's advocate and giving food for thought.

BTW, Hawaiian does not pay for hotels during any training conducted in HNL for new hires or existing pilots. That is because HNL is everyone's domicile and you are expected to provide your own housing in domicile.