Do you mean to tell me....

[SpauldingSmails]

UAL year 2 pay is higher, guarantee is higher, DC is higher, and there are new hires going to wide bodies ...

I'm not so sure about the second year pay bit.

Just a quick glance at APC shows DAL paying a higher hourly on the 737, narrow body Airbii and 757/767 - unless I'm missing something.


B737 Hourly Range, Step 2
DAL $104-105
UAL $98-102

A319/20/21, Step 2
DAL $101
UAL $98-102

B757/767, Step 2 (exc. 767-400)
DAL $108
UAL $102-104

717 at DAL checks in at $94, the MD88/90 at $98

 

[relief tube]

Still cheaper than paying for a type ride

 

[pave driver]

Agreed, and as I stated that was in the latest pilot contract survey, meaning it's on the radar. Still, the pay afterwards is a lot more than the rest, especially AA.



Bye Bye---General Lee

AA pays for hotel costs the entire time. We will have Delta + 8-10% rates starting December of this year (retro pay if no agreement is made starts December 2014). Newhires will soon see 70+/hour starting rates. You will make far more at AA than Delta as a newhire due to more retirements, movement, career progression and international options in your overall career. Upgrade time and career progression as well as international flying at the world's larget airline will be far superior to Delta. The vocal minority of pilot infighting is severely sensationalized and will not matter nor will newhires be affected. Choose wisely my fellow fliers and do your homework!

 

[General Lee]

AA pays for hotel costs the entire time. We will have Delta + 8-10% rates starting December of this year (retro pay if no agreement is made starts December 2014). Newhires will soon see 70+/hour starting rates. You will make far more at AA than Delta as a newhire due to more retirements, movement, career progression and international options in your overall career. Upgrade time and career progression as well as international flying at the world's larget airline will be far superior to Delta. The vocal minority of pilot infighting is severely sensationalized and will not matter nor will newhires be affected. Choose wisely my fellow fliers and do your homework!

Yes, choose wisely, and hopefully you don't get between an Eastie crew and a Westie crew in some jetway. Things will be said, and you never know what could happen next.

As far as AA pay goes, AA's CEO just offered them Delta +5%, but zero profit sharing and he wanted 81 seat scope (to which the APA said no way). It's interesting that AA doesn't have profit sharing (just out of BK), and Parker doesn't want to give them any. He's trying to quickly get a deal done before DL gets their profit sharing check (now the second of two checks) next Feb 14th. Thanks to huge profits and now even lower oil prices, the DL pilots will AT LEAST get an extra 2 months pay for profit sharing. Two months! (16% of your W2). It may even be more than that because oil has fallen so fast. Will the AA pilots share in any of their extra profits? Uhhhhhhhhhhhhh, noooooooooo.

Choose wisely pilots. Look at pay, profit sharing, bases, management, and internal strife. Right now AA lacks in all of them.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[SIG600]

I'm not so sure about the second year pay bit.

Just a quick glance at APC shows DAL paying a higher hourly on the 737, narrow body Airbii and 757/767 - unless I'm missing something.


B737 Hourly Range, Step 2
DAL $104-105
UAL $98-102

A319/20/21, Step 2
DAL $101
UAL $98-102

B757/767, Step 2 (exc. 767-400)
DAL $108
UAL $102-104

717 at DAL checks in at $94, the MD88/90 at $98

UAL reserve guarantee is 73-76 vice 72 for Delta. Line holder is 70 at UAL vice 65, and UAL trip rig is 3.5:1, meaning way more time home.

In reality, they're all splitting hairs. You can make bank and whore, or kick back and relax on rsv at either and make about the same pay.

As GL likes to point out though for the SWA guys, at UAL there's no slogging out 5 legs a day on any airplane like you do on the MD/717 at 1-1.5 a leg. Even the bus and 73 have some great int'l flying from Central America/Caribbean all the way to Bermuda and Alaska/Canada.

 

[General Lee]

UAL reserve guarantee is 73 vice 65 for Delta. UAL trip rig is 3.5:1 for line holders.

Nobody gets 65 hour lines. There is so much training going on that almost every fleet is short. 85 new hires per month, maybe increasing to 100. New hires are getting lines within a month on most fleets. Starting Nov 1st there is an average day of 5:15, which has added a few hours of credit to most 3 and 4 day trips, helping pilots fill up for the month faster, necessitating the need for more pilots.

And, I want to repeat, I think UA is great airline to work for. If you guys had management you could trust, it would be even better. My friends there don't like Jeff.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[SIG600]

Nobody gets 65 hour lines. There is so much training going on that almost every fleet is short. 85 new hires per month, maybe increasing to 100. New hires are getting lines within a month on most fleets. Starting Nov 1st there is an average day of 5:15, which has added a few hours of credit to most 3 and 4 day trips, helping pilots fill up for the month faster, necessitating the need for more pilots.



Bye Bye---General Lee

Do you just like hang out on here 24/7 waiting for people to respond? You're like lightning, but in a really sad way.

 

[General Lee]

Do you just like hang out on here 24/7 waiting for people to respond? You're like lightning, but in a really sad way.

No, I check in a few times per day, apparently when you do. Sorry I can refute everything you state. Don't get too huffy puffy here.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[pave driver]

Yes, choose wisely, and hopefully you don't get between an Eastie crew and a Westie crew in some jetway. Things will be said, and you never know what could happen next.

As far as AA pay goes, AA's CEO just offered them Delta +5%, but zero profit sharing and he wanted 81 seat scope (to which the APA said no way). It's interesting that AA doesn't have profit sharing (just out of BK), and Parker doesn't want to give them any. He's trying to quickly get a deal done before DL gets their profit sharing check (now the second of two checks) next Feb 14th. Thanks to huge profits and now even lower oil prices, the DL pilots will AT LEAST get an extra 2 months pay for profit sharing. Two months! (16% of your W2). It may even be more than that because oil has fallen so fast. Will the AA pilots share in any of their extra profits? Uhhhhhhhhhhhhh, noooooooooo.

Choose wisely pilots. Look at pay, profit sharing, bases, management, and internal strife. Right now AA lacks in all of them.



Bye Bye---General Lee

To all aspiring to move on to one of the big 3 look down the road 10,20,30 years. You will be better off if you go to AA. Look at the big picture. Research the retirements. Look at the future debt obligations. Research the bases you may hold after your first year. AA bases are far superior to Delta's bases. Do you really want to raise a family in Atlanta? Sorry to offend my mates, to each their own of course. Earning maddog FO pay for a decade on 4-day trips over the weekend vs. 3-day trips on an airbus to great destinations. Delta trips to Montgomery, AL!?! F-NO! AA trips to all the Caribbean islands such as Montego Bay, Jamaica...uh YES! Upgrade on an Airbus in 6 years vs. upgrade on a Maddog in 12+ years? Is that really a choice my young lads? That alone could cost you hundreds of thousands of $. Choose wisely. Please look at the BIG picture and not a current snapshot of the present airline contracts.

 

[Jim]

Everyone is bitching about new hire pay & hotels. But where is that money going to come from?

Management is more than willing to pay new hires more and reimburse hotels in the next contract. They will just take it out of other compensation increases going to the pilot group. What pilot group is going to accept less for guys not even hired yet?

Some say that management should pay new hires better without taking from the pilot group's compensation as they want to attract the best candidates. But with the large number of applicants for each pilot slot, management doesn't see this as a problem. So once again it comes to the fact management will want to offset increases from other areas of the pilot contract and you won't get existing pilots willing to take the hit. Or the existing pilots will say if there is extra money available it should go to them, not guys who have not been hired yet.

I'm not saying this is right or wrong, I'm just playing devil's advocate and giving food for thought.

BTW, Hawaiian does not pay for hotels during any training conducted in HNL for new hires or existing pilots. That is because HNL is everyone's domicile and you are expected to provide your own housing in domicile.