What will Republic do with their big C-Series CS300 Order?

[johnsonrod]

40 orders for the CS300 (120-130 seat version) and 40 options? What can Republic do with these airplanes given the restrictive scope clauses with the legacies? Will they just sell the orders/options to a legacy? Any predictions? A new airline sounds improbable....

Looks like a Bombardier C-Series visited Republic at Indy on the 6th according to the story below:



2014-10-07 ? Indianapolis, USA
Program Update
Bombardier Showcases CSeries FTV4 to Republic Airways

CSeries flight test vehicle four (FTV4), which is currently deployed to Wichita for flight testing, flew on October 6, 2014 to Indianapolis International Airport where it was showcased to Republic Airways' employees, leadership team and board members.

Republic and Bombardier signed a firm purchase agreement for 40 CS300 aircraft, plus 40 options in February, 2010.

This was a wonderful opportunity for my technical team to get an up-close view of the CSeries, especially of the flight deck which is revolutionizing air travel, said Bryan Bedford, President and Chief Executive Officer, Republic Airways. It was thrilling seeing this quiet game-changing aircraft in person and it's proving to be everything we've hoped it would be.

We are delighted to have been given the opportunity to showcase the CSeries aircraft to Republic Airways in Indianapolis, said Ray Jones, Senior Vice President, Sales, Marketing and Asset Management, Bombardier Commercial Aircraft. Republic has always said that the CSeries airliner would be utilized as a mainline aircraft and we are very pleased to be working with the airline as it prepares its business and fleet plans for the aircraft's introduction into the North American market.

Here is a video of the Republic visit at Indy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzYUzCxgBLo



Looks like a great airplane and I expect the CS300 (bigger than the current CS100 version) would be flown by the legacies vs. of the regionals given the scope clauses. Here is a good video discussion about the FBW system on the test aircraft:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OghtdzFXFoo

 

[Heavy Set]

I saw the CS100 in Wichita a few weeks back. Nice looking airplane. I am a fan of Bombardier's and I am sure it will be a nice flying airplane too from a pilot perspective.

I agree that the scope clauses make Republic's plans for the bigger CS300 very questionable. APA shut down American yesterday with regard to scope relief. So, that would leave UAL and Delta as other options but their scope clauses are also very tight. No doubt it should be flown by mainline pilots. Should be interesting to watch.

 

[johnsonrod]

Isn't the Delta scope clause limited to 76 seats? Maybe Republic could offer 76 business class seats on the CS300 for Delta?

I hope not - obviously these things (especially the CS300) should be flown by mainline pilots.

 

[General Lee]

I saw the CS100 in Wichita a few weeks back. Nice looking airplane. I am a fan of Bombardier's and I am sure it will be a nice flying airplane too from a pilot perspective.

I agree that the scope clauses make Republic's plans for the bigger CS300 very questionable. APA shut down American yesterday with regard to scope relief. So, that would leave UAL and Delta as other options but their scope clauses are also very tight. No doubt it should be flown by mainline pilots. Should be interesting to watch.

Right now anything over 76 seats is a bust for most scope clauses, and higher profits by the legacies mean fewer givebacks by the pilots. The APA already told Parker to shove it when it comes to scope. If Republic were to fly anything over 76 seats for anyone else, they would lose all DL Connection flying. They had a "Frontier exception" when they owned them, but now it's gone. I hear these planes are on the expensive side, and until those prices go down, I don't see many in the US.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Freebrd]

Now that's all your opinion right Jenny? Just like everyone has an ahole right?

 

[johnsonrod]

Right now anything over 76 seats is a bust for most scope clauses, and higher profits by the legacies mean fewer givebacks by the pilots. The APA already told Parker to shove it when it comes to scope. If Republic were to fly anything over 76 seats for anyone else, they would lose all DL Connection flying. They had a "Frontier exception" when they owned them, but now it's gone. I hear these planes are on the expensive side, and until those prices go down, I don't see many in the US.


Bye Bye---General Lee

Expensive? Maybe relative to older 717s. But a 717 can't fly something like 2,000 miles efficiently with a full load. Given that Republic has scope clause issues and it is the sole US airline ordering the C-Series, I bet Bombardier would negotiate a lower price for a volume deal. Even Anderson at Delta suggested that they would consider the bigger CS300 (120-140 seats) to potentially fit between the 717 and the 800/320. You get what you negotiate...

 

[Freebrd]

oh no, now you're correcting jenny with factual information, she'll be soooo confused but attempt to come back with something witty, more likely something stupid and ignorant

 

[WSurf]

Right now anything over 76 seats is a bust for most scope clauses, and higher profits by the legacies mean fewer givebacks by the pilots. The APA already told Parker to shove it when it comes to scope. If Republic were to fly anything over 76 seats for anyone else, they would lose all DL Connection flying. They had a "Frontier exception" when they owned them, but now it's gone. I hear these planes are on the expensive side, and until those prices go down, I don't see many in the US.


Bye Bye---General Lee

We can only hope. It was only 10 years ago we thought that about the CRJ-900's.

 

[General Lee]

Now that's all your opinion right Jenny? Just like everyone has an ahole right?

Again, you never add anything of substance. Would you care to give your own opinion, backed up with some facts? You can't, you don't know how. DL's scope clause is clear, nothing over 76 seats, and that includes anything with a specific weight. (Can't fly a plane designed with more than 76 seats and only put 76 seats on them). There is also the part about any DCI carrier adding any larger plane, loses the DCI contract. Sooooooooo, that would include Republic, and their only exception was the "Frontier exception" when they owned them, which they don't now.

Oil is dropping, meaning it's tougher for management to negotiate any concessions from employees. IOWs, it ain't gonna happen.

So genius, give us your opinion on what may happen with those Republic CS100s. Do it, I can't wait.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

We can only hope. It was only 10 years ago we thought that about the CRJ-900's.

True, but what has happened in the last 10 years? Since then, Consolidation has occurred, increasing profitability due to fewer players in the mix. Then add bag fees and change fees. That has added BILLIONS of dollars in profit. Then add new FARs dealing with fatigue and hiring rules. Unbelievable changes, and the big 3 are only getting stronger. What was the amount of money the legacies save every time gas drops one penny? It was a lot. Jet fuel in FEB 2013 was $3.22, Friday it was $2.58. That will save DL over $2.5 billion. That is amazing. I'm not saying nothing could happen to stop that, but so far so good.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Freebrd]

History Jenni, history! Y'all have caved numerous times on scope limits for mo money. Hell years ago you even allowed us (ASA) to operate I think up to 20 BAE 146s. They were all 88 seats and one of them even had 100 seats! You create these lines in the sand like our President then you move the line, again and again. Seriously I do hope you don't this time though, I really do. But rest assured that RA and regional CEOs are maneuvering for more relaxation of scope limits. AA is trying now.

 

[General Lee]

History Jenni, history! Y'all have caved numerous times on scope limits for mo money. Hell years ago you even allowed us (ASA) to operate I think up to 20 BAE 146s. They were all 88 seats and one of them even had 100 seats! You create these lines in the sand like our President then you move the line, again and again. Seriously I do hope you don't this time though, I really do. But rest assured that RA and regional CEOs are maneuvering for more relaxation of scope limits. AA is trying now.

Really? The last time scope was increased was in BK court, from 70 to 76 seats. No increases in 2 contracts since. (Joint contract and the latest 2 1/2 years ago). There have been pay increases associated with both.

The number of 76 seaters was increased during the last one, but that also included parking 200 plus 50 seaters, and the 76 seaters could only come at the same rate as 717s, and fewer at that. The BAe 146s were gone around 9-11 or earlier. Why didn't you bring up ASA Dash-7s for reference too?

The APA just told Parker at AA to pound sand when it comes to scope. And concessions are hard to get when your airline makes $4 billion in profits for the year. History is important, but recent history is more relevant.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[BOX OFFICE]

You all think inside the box too much. Republic, like SkyWest, has realized the end is near for FFD/Cost+ agreements, and are positioning themselves to be aircraft leasing companies. do you really think SkyWest plans to fly the 600 or so big RJs it has on order?

Also, even if US mainline carriers don't want to fly them, they will be a big hit overseas. I could see Garuda snapping up a whole bunch of them to fit nicely between their CRJ 1000s and 737s.

 

[General Lee]

You all think inside the box too much. Republic, like SkyWest, has realized the end is near for FFD/Cost+ agreements, and are positioning themselves to be aircraft leasing companies. do you really think SkyWest plans to fly the 600 or so big RJs it has on order?

Also, even if US mainline carriers don't want to fly them, they will be a big hit overseas. I could see Garuda snapping up a whole bunch of them to fit nicely between their CRJ 1000s and 737s.

You probably are correct. I don't see them flying those planes, scope clauses won't allow it and due to higher profits it's very doubtful that mainline pilots will have to give any scope concessions. So, maybe those airlines ordered the planes and options to later sell them for a slight profit to someone else.

Good thinking Box Office.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Twisted Mind]

Main line pilots don't have to give up scope, but they will if the price is right.

 

[jonjuan]

Main line pilots don't have to give up scope, but they will if the price is right.

Bingo......

 

[Jon Rivoli]

What percentage of Delta pax connect on a SKYW flight every day? Twenty? Twenty five?

Comair"s strike cost Delta $1 BILLION per month and that was only KCVG. The loss of SKYW feed would put Delta in BK in a month.

'Mr. Anderson, we find the terms you offer unacceptable. We are converting our options to E195's and will be flying our own schedule. We own the gates in SLC and ATL. Would you like to code share or go bankrupt? I'm sure your unions will understand.'

BTW, Alaska is willing to play ball. How's SEA working out for you?

BYE BYE!!!

 

[General Lee]

What percentage of Delta pax connect on a SKYW flight every day? Twenty? Twenty five?

Comair"s strike cost Delta $1 BILLION per month and that was only KCVG. The loss of SKYW feed would put Delta in BK in a month.

'Mr. Anderson, we find the terms you offer unacceptable. We are converting our options to E195's and will be flying our own schedule. We own the gates in SLC and ATL. Would you like to code share or go bankrupt? I'm sure your unions will understand.'

BTW, Alaska is willing to play ball. How's SEA working out for you?

BYE BYE!!!

Uhhhhhh, not really. Comair's strike cost DL $1 billion TOTAL, not per month. There are other feed opportunities, or just using excess mainline planes. 717s could be used to add seats if needed. This year it appears there could be about $4 billion in profits. DL debt has been paid down to roughly $5-6 billion, down from $18 billion. During the BK, there were too many Major airlines, which is not the case anymore. And, there weren't extra bag and change fees that really add a lot to the profits. Sooooooo, I think you may be incorrect. And SEA is doing great, it will grow from 71 daily flights now to 170 daily by 2017. Compass may open a base up there too.

The Comair strike really taught the legacies a lot, like not allowing one Regional operator to operate all of the feed at one hub. Also, since then there has been Consolidation, and the one way feed from Montana to SLC for example, now has other routings, like through MSP. Stranded pax would simply be rerouted through other, unaffected hubs. Both Endeavor and Compass could assist in MSP too, where you also have a presence. And, with your own dwindling profits, a prolonged strike might not help your own case.

Jon, you're starting to sound a little crazy. Why bring up SEA again? DL needs feed to help fill up INTL flights at the hub. Most of the current DL city pairs in Asia will likely get nonstops from SEA, and that means lots of connections. AK is fairly full, so DL will do it themselves. Big expansion plans, and plenty of profits to pay for it. Have a great day Jon.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Twisted Mind]

Delta is better protected for sure. A stoppage by Skywest would still severely hurt operations. Endeavor will be little help. Endeavor is parking/giving away aircraft to manage the staffing situation there. Delta's pilot training is running at near capacity so a quick 717 fix might not be a solution either.

Does any one remember GL babbling on incoherently about taking back scope? I do. then the contract came out and he couldn't stop gushing about how great it was. The contract gave up scope for large RJ's. Expect more of the same in 2015.

 

[Indy319FA]

Right now anything over 76 seats is a bust for most scope clauses, and higher profits by the legacies mean fewer givebacks by the pilots. The APA already told Parker to shove it when it comes to scope. If Republic were to fly anything over 76 seats for anyone else, they would lose all DL Connection flying. They had a "Frontier exception" when they owned them, but now it's gone. I hear these planes are on the expensive side, and until those prices go down, I don't see many in the US.


Bye Bye---General Lee

Not if they are on the Republic Certificate. Those restrictions only apply to the Chautauqua and Shuttle America certificates. Bedford is a master of the multiple certificate game to get around scope clauses.