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What will Republic do with their big C-Series CS300 Order?

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Last edited:
Indy319FA said:
Not if they are on the Republic Certificate. Those restrictions only apply to the Chautauqua and Shuttle America certificates. Bedford is a master of the multiple certificate game to get around scope clauses.
Click to expand...

Uhhhhh, notice Republic still has a couple E190s doing casino charters, but not flying any feed for any legacy. There was a "Frontier Exception" in the DL contract, but that is now gone, and those E190s were flying for Frontier for awhile. I don't see any CS100s flying feed for any legacy via Republic, and I certainly don't see an Indy Air type situation. Maybe more casino charters...


Bye Bye---General Lee
 
No one is talking about a Strike and there is no way Delta could replace the capacity. A 25%reduction in passenger traffic would put you in the poor house faster than you could transition to the 717. That's not going to happen. Arrangements will be made and when they are, you will be on here defending them as great business moves for Delta and yada, yada, yada.....

We've heard it all before.

Bye Bye!
 
General Lee said:
Uhhhhh, notice Republic still has a couple E190s doing casino charters, but not flying any feed for any legacy. There was a "Frontier Exception" in the DL contract, but that is now gone, and those E190s were flying for Frontier for awhile. I don't see any CS100s flying feed for any legacy via Republic, and I certainly don't see an Indy Air type situation. Maybe more casino charters...


Bye Bye---General Lee
Click to expand...

The 190s were flying for Midwest Express before Bedford bought Frontier. Scope applies to certificates, not holding companies. The original Airways scope only applies to what is flown for Airways, not the entire certificate unlike Delta and United. This is why Bedford could put any size aircraft on the Republic certificate. We'll see what happens with the scope on the American/US Airways side of things. APA has never been kind to Bedford in the past, as they fined him $30,000 for every day the 170s were on the Chautauqua certificate when their scope was limited to 50 seats, which is what led to Shuttle getting 170s.

If anybody decides to use 170s/MRJ/CS3000s as a stand alone operation they will have one big advantage Independence Air did not. A CASM friendly airplane. One of the things that killed Fly I was driving 97 CASM unfriendly CRJs around. If Fly I had 170s or CRJ 900s it would have been very different, as the company made money once it got to 12 319s and 25 CRJs. Unfortunately they dug such a hole getting there they were not able to climb out.
 
General Lee said:
Uhhhhhh, not really. Comair's strike cost DL $1 billion TOTAL, not per month. There are other feed opportunities, or just using excess mainline planes. 717s could be used to add seats if needed. This year it appears there could be about $4 billion in profits. DL debt has been paid down to roughly $5-6 billion, down from $18 billion. During the BK, there were too many Major airlines, which is not the case anymore. And, there weren't extra bag and change fees that really add a lot to the profits. Sooooooo, I think you may be incorrect. And SEA is doing great, it will grow from 71 daily flights now to 170 daily by 2017. Compass may open a base up there too.

The Comair strike really taught the legacies a lot, like not allowing one Regional operator to operate all of the feed at one hub. Also, since then there has been Consolidation, and the one way feed from Montana to SLC for example, now has other routings, like through MSP. Stranded pax would simply be rerouted through other, unaffected hubs. Both Endeavor and Compass could assist in MSP too, where you also have a presence. And, with your own dwindling profits, a prolonged strike might not help your own case.


Bye Bye---General Lee
Click to expand...

Don't be surprised if legacies move away from this as well. The "portfolio" concept of keeping several regionals in a hub may help if there is an interruption in service, but it is horribly inefficient and requires a lot of deadheads and downtime that are difficult to manage under 117 and an environment where regionals are struggling to fill cockpits. UAL is already moving everybody around to get down to two or three regionals per hub. This worked ok in a pre 117 world where there were lots of pilots out there.
 
Indy319FA said:
The 190s were flying for Midwest Express before Bedford bought Frontier. Scope applies to certificates, not holding companies. The original Airways scope only applies to what is flown for Airways, not the entire certificate unlike Delta and United. This is why Bedford could put any size aircraft on the Republic certificate. We'll see what happens with the scope on the American/US Airways side of things. APA has never been kind to Bedford in the past, as they fined him $30,000 for every day the 170s were on the Chautauqua certificate when their scope was limited to 50 seats, which is what led to Shuttle getting 170s.

If anybody decides to use 170s/MRJ/CS3000s as a stand alone operation they will have one big advantage Independence Air did not. A CASM friendly airplane. One of the things that killed Fly I was driving 97 CASM unfriendly CRJs around. If Fly I had 170s or CRJ 900s it would have been very different, as the company made money once it got to 12 319s and 25 CRJs. Unfortunately they dug such a hole getting there they were not able to climb out.
Click to expand...

Look how fast Indy Air died. If any of the Regionals try that again, I expect every other airline to gang up on it and repeat history. See, the thing Indy Air and others didn't and don't understand about going "independent" is the extra costs involved that they didn't have to pay as a feeder, like reservations, advertising, marketing, obtaining their own airport gates/slots/counters, etc. They didn't have to pay for any of that before, and then it bites them in the rear when they start out.

It won't be pretty for anyone who tries in the future, but it will be interesting to watch.


Bye Bye---General Lee
 
Yea interesting as in it might work. Then they will be picking Delta's pocket while making a profit with their 100 seat aircraft.
 
I still believe we could see Delta CS300s (not the smaller CS100) in the future. The aircraft fits between the 717 and 738/A320 in terms of seating. Anderson mentioned in an article awhile ago that he was interested in the aircraft but would need to see it operational before considering orders... Ya never know........
 
We will probably see a new airline formed by Republic or Skywest with these aircraft. It will be a "loophole" and legacies will code share with that new airline.
 
RJLoser said:
We will probably see a new airline formed by Republic or Skywest with these aircraft. It will be a "loophole" and legacies will code share with that new airline.
Click to expand...

Riiiiiight. You're the ONLY one to think of something like that..... Sure...

Bye Bye---General Lee
 
General Lee said:
Riiiiiight. You're the ONLY one to think of something like that..... Sure...

Bye Bye---General Lee
Click to expand...

Someone save this statement from Jenny!

Y'all know she stayed at a HI Express the other night so she's smarter than the COOs w/ their MBAs and such. So far they have a pretty good record against pilots by giving a small raise and getting that scope line moved, how many times now Jenny? And oh my, how you glow and try to twist it that it's such a great improvement.
 
Freebrd said:
Someone save this statement from Jenny!

Y'all know she stayed at a HI Express the other night so she's smarter than the COOs w/ their MBAs and such. So far they have a pretty good record against pilots by giving a small raise and getting that scope line moved, how many times now Jenny? And oh my, how you glow and try to twist it that it's such a great improvement.
Click to expand...

Hey Freeturd, looks like the scope line hasn't moved seat wise since it was forced in BK. How many contracts have occurred since BK? You keep looking at your glory days with Bae146s, but they are long gone. Since then, scope has tightened, an agreement was made to park 200+ 50 seaters, and add even fewer 76 seaters but tie them to incoming 717s. Scope concessions come in bad times Turdy, (like BK) and profits are only increasing at the big 3. Extremely doubtful, but maybe a mainline carrier will pick up the orders and options. All 3 pilot groups at the big 3 are looking for more pay, but the billions in extra profits due to lower oil and fees means IT'S ALREADY THERE. No need to trade. Sorry turdy, you know I'm right. So, got your apps out anywhere?



Bye Bye---General Lee
 
Well, yeah I do Jenny. Just keep holding that scope line or even reduce it and maybe I'll be a real pilot someday, like you? Oh wait, you're a dispatcher, where was it....
 
Freebrd said:
Well, yeah I do Jenny. Just keep holding that scope line or even reduce it and maybe I'll be a real pilot someday, like you? Oh wait, you're a dispatcher, where was it....
Click to expand...

Will you go back to Vietnam? Go for it.



Bye Bye---General Lee
 
Jenny you're such a putz. 'Nam was a cool and fun, very fun if you know what I mean (but prob don't), experience. Glad I did it but no, of course I'm not going back to Vietnam you idiot.
 
General Lee said:
Uhhhhh, notice Republic still has a couple E190s doing casino charters, but not flying any feed for any legacy. There was a "Frontier Exception" in the DL contract, but that is now gone, and those E190s were flying for Frontier for awhile. I don't see any CS100s flying feed for any legacy via Republic, and I certainly don't see an Indy Air type situation. Maybe more casino charters...


Bye Bye---General Lee
Click to expand...

Republic certificate flew 86 seat E175s for usairways from 2007 till 2012ish when airways put biz class in them and brought the to 76 seats. Republic certificate wasn't doing delta flying so the scope clause did not apply. the whole reason for multiple certificates was to get around the AA and DL scope
 
king10pin02 said:
Republic certificate flew 86 seat E175s for usairways from 2007 till 2012ish when airways put biz class in them and brought the to 76 seats. Republic certificate wasn't doing delta flying so the scope clause did not apply. the whole reason for multiple certificates was to get around the AA and DL scope
Click to expand...

Ok, here goes. The legacy pilot group WILL NOT allow anything over 76 seats, period. The APA told Parker to pack sand at 81 seats. The DL and UA pilots will say the same if asked. You can't just codeshare with "Republic Airlines" flying CS100s. There are domestic codeshare approvals for the legacies too. Don't you think DALPA and the APA have thought of that? I know USAir used to have 86 seat Mesa CR9s too, and now the APA said NO to 81 seats. Trying to "codeshare" and get around scope is not something new, and the unions have protections for that. Did you notice that the AK codeshare with DL got more restrictive in the last contract, along with DCI flying? (More for mainline). Parker was told directly by the APA what they thought, they shut the door on him. That means US and AA flying is a NO. I believe UA told Smizeck the same, and DL restricted it during the last contract as I said. DL also had the "Frontier exception", since it was bought by Bedford. Republic/ Shuttle America was allowed to keep flying DL feed even though Bedford owned Frontier. Was Frontier on a Seperate certificate? Yes, but it was the only "exception." Get it? As in "one exception." No more.

But, you can go alone and try an Indy Air deal. Go for it.


Bye Bye---General Lee
 
Last edited:
No fighting boys

I see mainline United getting all those orders and options from Republic and converting them to -300 orders
80 new planes with 125 seats is a must for UAL
In return they will sign another 80 175 with Republic in 2016 after the scope required date.


Think about it
 

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