Middle East carriers order $150B in 777X's emirates cancels A350 order

[waveflyer]

http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/Boeing-Closes-56-Billion-Order-for-777X222320-1.html
Dubai airline Emirates finalized a $56 billion order to buy 150 Boeing 777X jets today, firming up a commitment made last year, just weeks after scrapping an order with rival Airbus. The deal includes purchase rights for an additional 50 airplanes which, if exercised, could increase the value to about $75 billion at list prices, according to a report by Reuters. "With the order for 150 777Xs, Emirates now has 208 Boeing 777s pending delivery, creating and securing jobs across the supply chain," Emirates president Tim Clark said.

The agreement comes days before the Farnborough International Airshow, traditionally an event at which billions of dollars of new plane orders are announced. It follows the surprise cancellation in June of a $16-billion order by Emirates to buy 70 of Airbus' A350 aircraft, which delivered a blow to the European planemaker's newest aircraft and hit its share price. Airbus ended the first half of the year behind its U.S. rival in orders and deliveries, but is widely expected to unveil hundreds of new orders at the Farnborough show next week. The Emirates' order was part of the 777X launch at the Dubai Air Show in November last year, one of the largest product launches in commercial jetliner history. Along with Emirates, Gulf carriers Etihad Airways and Qatar Airways also announced deals for the plane, totaling $100 billion at list prices.

 

[fr8doggie]

Good for Boeing! As a former A-300 Capt. I'm not a fan of the ScareBus.

Regards,
Fr8doggie

 

[Mamma]

Wonder what they will want in "return."

 

[skywiz]

Good for Boeing! As a former A-300 Capt. I'm not a fan of the ScareBus.

Regards,
Fr8doggie

What do u have against the scarebus? Very comfortable and it flies itself for the most part, right? How could u not love it?

 

[DCAA320]

What do u have against the scarebus? Very comfortable and it flies itself for the most part, right? How could u not love it?

Guys with flip phones hate the bus.

 

[Wesb737fo]

I'm not a big fan either. Not because I'm a dinosaur, I've been on the 737 too long, I'm institutional Boeing now. The Airbus philosophy of building a plane flown by Auto Pilot assisted by human pilots is not my thing and needs to be tweaked a bit. I like the technology, but, the fact that one guy can push the stick over while the other guy can pull back with no indication is one example of some tweaking needed. On the other side, I'm sure I will be completely overwhelmed by the technology changes on 737 max.

 

[fr8doggie]

What do u have against the scarebus? Very comfortable and it flies itself for the most part, right? How could u not love it?

The A-300 is the plow horse to the MD-11's thoroughbred.

It's a safe airplane but flying it is about as much fun as having sex with a condom on:
It's OK but the alternative feels MUCH better.

Regards,
Fr8doggie

 

[Little G-Force]

All of these come with loan guarantees through the world bank. Alpa shouldn't be worried about Norwegian Air shuttle.

 

[olympus593]

but, the fact that one guy can push the stick over while the other guy can pull back with no indication.

It's an indication that you Don t know what your are talking about. The above scenario would trigger a "dual inputs" warning. Hope you enjoy your flip phone and the comfi ride the 73 give you on the transcons.

 

[olympus593]

Delete

 

[Wesb737fo]

Flip Phone....haha.. That is funny! I'll have you know that I have an I phone. Three....or two...I don't remember. Anyway, no need to be uncivil. Since you are a bus guy, maybe you can shed some light on something. I read an article regarding the A330 crash off South America. From what I recall, there were two First Officers with the Captain returning to the jumpseat during the descent. At some point below 10,000 feet (don't remember the exact altitude...maybe 3 or 4 thousand) the more junior FO made a statement that he had been holding the stick back the entire time. He was told to let go and the other First Officer lowered the nose. The ground proximity alert sounded and the more junior FO again pulled back. I'm assuming the dual input warning/light was missed in all the confusion. Not sure if they could have recovered from the stall at that point anyway. On the 73 it is apparent when the the other pilot grabs the yoke. Not judging, just saying.
Keep it civil. And while I don't have a flip phone, I do have a pocket abacus.
Cheers

 

[timmay]

Flip Phone....haha.. That is funny! I'll have you know that I have an I phone. Three....or two...I don't remember. Anyway, no need to be uncivil. Since you are a bus guy, maybe you can shed some light on something. I read an article regarding the A330 crash off South America. From what I recall, there were two First Officers with the Captain returning to the jumpseat during the descent. At some point below 10,000 feet (don't remember the exact altitude...maybe 3 or 4 thousand) the more junior FO made a statement that he had been holding the stick back the entire time. He was told to let go and the other First Officer lowered the nose. The ground proximity alert sounded and the more junior FO again pulled back. I'm assuming the dual input warning/light was missed in all the confusion. Not sure if they could have recovered from the stall at that point anyway. On the 73 it is apparent when the the other pilot grabs the yoke. Not judging, just saying.

Keep it civil. And while I don't have a flip phone, I do have a pocket abacus.

Cheers

Holding the red button on the sidestick will give you priority over the other sidestick effectively locking out the other stick. If both pilots hold their stick in opposite directions without pushing the red button the inputs are summed, equalling zero load factor change. In "normal law" not during landing, pitch inputs are created using load factor. All that said if both pilots hold the stick in complete opposite directions nothing changes.

 

[Dornier 335]

Flip Phone....haha.. That is funny! I'll have you know that I have an I phone. Three....or two...I don't remember. Anyway, no need to be uncivil. Since you are a bus guy, maybe you can shed some light on something. I read an article regarding the A330 crash off South America. From what I recall, there were two First Officers with the Captain returning to the jumpseat during the descent. At some point below 10,000 feet (don't remember the exact altitude...maybe 3 or 4 thousand) the more junior FO made a statement that he had been holding the stick back the entire time. He was told to let go and the other First Officer lowered the nose. The ground proximity alert sounded and the more junior FO again pulled back. I'm assuming the dual input warning/light was missed in all the confusion. Not sure if they could have recovered from the stall at that point anyway. On the 73 it is apparent when the the other pilot grabs the yoke. Not judging, just saying.
Keep it civil. And while I don't have a flip phone, I do have a pocket abacus.
Cheers

The Air France 447 accident is very complex. I recommend the book by Bill Palmer "Understanding Air France 447". He also mentions the dual input issue and refers to a couple of accidents with conventional yokes: Aeroperu, Birgaair and one or two others (all in Boeings, I think). Another one out of the top of my head was in a BEA Trident out of Heathrow or Gatwick in the 70s. More puzzling about the one F/O who kept pulling back is that he had a glider rating.

Flawed design? Hardly! More an erosion of pilot flying skills. Just look at the private pilot pts and you will be shocked.

 

[ATRCA]

I'm not a big fan either. Not because I'm a dinosaur, I've been on the 737 too long, I'm institutional Boeing now. The Airbus philosophy of building a plane flown by Auto Pilot assisted by human pilots is not my thing and needs to be tweaked a bit. I like the technology, but, the fact that one guy can push the stick over while the other guy can pull back with no indication is one example of some tweaking needed. On the other side, I'm sure I will be completely overwhelmed by the technology changes on 737 max.

That's too bad. The 73 is definitely not cool. Yuk! Never flown the Bus but I'd be happy to give it a try. Can't be that hard and there's no way it's less comfortable than the 73.

 

[Golden Falcon]

I'm not a big fan either. Not because I'm a dinosaur, I've been on the 737 too long, I'm institutional Boeing now. The Airbus philosophy of building a plane flown by Auto Pilot assisted by human pilots is not my thing and needs to be tweaked a bit. I like the technology, but, the fact that one guy can push the stick over while the other guy can pull back with no indication is one example of some tweaking needed. On the other side, I'm sure I will be completely overwhelmed by the technology changes on 737 max.

777 similar...all new gen airplanes designed to be automatically flown, and managed by the pilot...

 

[Golden Falcon]

That's too bad. The 73 is definitely not cool. Yuk! Never flown the Bus but I'd be happy to give it a try. Can't be that hard and there's no way it's less comfortable than the 73.

What are you talking about?...both airplanes serve a purpose..done the Boeing and FBW Airbus thing..different philosophies Airbus lighter workload during normal ops...disaster when things start to break...to each his own..both fed my belly..

 

[Wesb737fo]

What are you talking about?...both airplanes serve a purpose..done the Boeing and FBW Airbus thing..different philosophies Airbus lighter workload during normal ops...disaster when things start to break...to each his own..both fed my belly..

Good point on the design philosophy, I guess that was what I was trying to say. I suppose a combination of training and design enhancements will hopefully eliminate future accidents like the ones we are discussing.

 

[Wesb737fo]

That's too bad. The 73 is definitely not cool. Yuk! Never flown the Bus but I'd be happy to give it a try. Can't be that hard and there's no way it's less comfortable than the 73.

Not cool ? Who are you? The Fonz. Kidding .... I suppose I'm showing my age by referencing a tv show that aired when the 737-200 was considered a new airplane. You on the 73 now?

 

[krewmeel]

I'm not a big fan either. Not because I'm a dinosaur, I've been on the 737 too long, I'm institutional Boeing now. The Airbus philosophy of building a plane flown by Auto Pilot assisted by human pilots is not my thing and needs to be tweaked a bit. I like the technology, but, the fact that one guy can push the stick over while the other guy can pull back with no indication is one example of some tweaking needed. On the other side, I'm sure I will be completely overwhelmed by the technology changes on 737 max.

Yes, but when you are flying a transcon, it is nice when the autopilot does not actually move a huge yoke repeatedly, almost slamming you in the ball$, for 5 hours. Crew meals are more enjoyable when this thing is not in your way and you have a table. Guess it doesn't matter to SWA....they don't have crew meals anyway (sorry WN guys, couldn't resist).

PS, there ARE indications of a cross input, a red light with an arrow and a charming audible warning in a british accent of: "Priority left or Priority right" will sound very loudly through the speakers.

 

[Wesb737fo]

Yes, but when you are flying a transcon, it is nice when the autopilot does not actually move a huge yoke repeatedly, almost slamming you in the ball$.

That's the only way I can wake up the Catain!

 

[SWA Bubba]

Yes, but when you are flying a transcon, it is nice when the autopilot does not actually move a huge yoke repeatedly, almost slamming you in the ball$, for 5 hours. Crew meals are more enjoyable when this thing is not in your way and you have a table. Guess it doesn't matter to SWA....they don't have crew meals anyway (sorry WN guys, couldn't resist).

PS, there ARE indications of a cross input, a red light with an arrow and a charming audible warning in a british accent of: "Priority left or Priority right" will sound very loudly through the speakers.

Really?

Exactly how big are your balls, that you have to worry about them being "slammed by the yoke" during 5 hours of cruise at altitude? Or maybe it's your huge gut you're thinking of, from all those delicious crew meals you've named yourself after, not to mention all of General Lee's ice cream sundaes.

Are you sure you've ever flown in a 737? The yoke's movement at cruise is essentially imperceptible, unless you stare at it and catch it moving a millimeter or so.

Not to add to the Boeing vs Airbus mudslinging contest, but my take is that they just have different philosophies on how to do things. To each his or her own.

Bubba

 

[Wesb737fo]

Did you really just ask a dude about the size of his balls?

 

[waveflyer]

Did you really just ask a dude about the size of his balls?

I believe he did haha

To be called "curious bubba" from now on...

You don't have to actually hit your balls to know what he's talking about- that said it's more than possible in a tall guy lean

Yokes are done-

Boeing says it's design philosophy is have the 777 look, operate and feel like other boeing's they may have flown...

It's ridiculous that a completely fly by wire jet still has a yoke.

And ridiculous that a 2017 737 max will still have cables

 

[Dan Roman]

Really?

Exactly how big are your balls, that you have to worry about them being "slammed by the yoke" during 5 hours of cruise at altitude? Or maybe it's your huge gut you're thinking of, from all those delicious crew meals you've named yourself after, not to mention all of General Lee's ice cream sundaes.

Are you sure you've ever flown in a 737? The yoke's movement at cruise is essentially imperceptible, unless you stare at it and catch it moving a millimeter or so.

Not to add to the Boeing vs Airbus mudslinging contest, but my take is that they just have different philosophies on how to do things. To each his or her own.

Bubba

This has nothing to do with ones male attachments but once someone flies an Airbus they usually never want to deal with a yoke again. The side stick set up is so superior for comfort it's ridiculous. It's also fun to fly with a side stick.

 

[waveflyer]

The gay innuendos just won't stop in this thread....

 

[uba757]

I like the yoke on the 777! My average size balls never get smacked during flight!!!!!

 

[whymeworry?]

Wonder what they will want in "return."

My guess: a US CBP pre-clear facility at DXB, guaranteed access to US markets (they have that anyway, but something in writing that allows them to do what they want unimpeded), US taxpayer-funded enhanced financing, other back-room agreements that Boeing no doubt got cleared though the lobby process in DC.

 

[DUBLINFLYER]

British European Airways Flight 548 was a scheduled passenger flight from London Heathrow to Brussels on 18 June 1972 which crashed soon after take-off, killing all 118 people on board. The accident became known as the Staines disaster and remained the deadliest air disaster in Britain until the Pan Am Flight 103 bombing over Lockerbie, Scotland, in 1988.
The Hawker Siddeley Trident suffered a deep stall in the third minute of the flight and crashed near the town of Staines, narrowly missing a busy main road. The ensuing inquest principally blamed the captain for failing to maintain airspeed and configure the high-lift devices correctly. It cited the captain's heart condition and the limited experience of the co-pilot, while also noting an unspecified "technical problem" that they apparently resolved while still on the runway.
The crash took place against the background of a pilots' strike that had caused bad feelings between crew members. The strike had also disrupted services, causing Flight 548 to be loaded with the maximum weight allowable.
Recommendations from the inquiry led to the mandatory installation of cockpit voice recorders in British-registered airliners. Another recommendation was for greater caution before allowing off-duty crew members to occupy flight deck seats.
Two of the pilots' unions protested at the conduct of the inquiry, which was likened to a 'lawyers' picnic'.

 

[Dan Roman]

British European Airways Flight 548 was a scheduled passenger flight from London Heathrow to Brussels on 18 June 1972 which crashed soon after take-off, killing all 118 people on board. The accident became known as the Staines disaster and remained the deadliest air disaster in Britain until the Pan Am Flight 103 bombing over Lockerbie, Scotland, in 1988.
The Hawker Siddeley Trident suffered a deep stall in the third minute of the flight and crashed near the town of Staines, narrowly missing a busy main road. The ensuing inquest principally blamed the captain for failing to maintain airspeed and configure the high-lift devices correctly. It cited the captain's heart condition and the limited experience of the co-pilot, while also noting an unspecified "technical problem" that they apparently resolved while still on the runway.
The crash took place against the background of a pilots' strike that had caused bad feelings between crew members. The strike had also disrupted services, causing Flight 548 to be loaded with the maximum weight allowable.
Recommendations from the inquiry led to the mandatory installation of cockpit voice recorders in British-registered airliners. Another recommendation was for greater caution before allowing off-duty crew members to occupy flight deck seats.
Two of the pilots' unions protested at the conduct of the inquiry, which was likened to a 'lawyers' picnic'.

Dublin, sorry as I have had a couple Guinness's but....it seems you have posted this with an anti-union perspective when in reality it's a simple case of very weak CRM?

 

[DUBLINFLYER]

Just enlightening Dornier 335 on reference to this in his post