Flex's new bases

[Propilot77]

Mostly this. Peak will suck. More than normal. You'll have to watch how you end your bid months now as the optimizer tries to front load each month for some reason I have forgotten. And 8-4-8-4 is possible, but keep in mind other things like 5-3-8 will now be a scheduling possibility. Fans of the 5-3-6 can now up their game.

The bases are a good thing. I think that jacking with the bid rules will have unintended consequences that seem minor now, but will create a lot of frustration down the road.

We should not have to give up days off/longer rotations to get more bases! All of these bases are MAJOR CITIES and don't warrant this schedule change! The bases would have happened eventually because when the hiring starts again know one will come work here and move to one of 6 bases! (This has already been proven in the past) so to remain competitive they would have to add them either way. Also no Flops guys are going to come to the Flex side and uproot family and to move to one of our stellar 6 bases. So what they are doing is taking advantage of the situation and getting something for nothing.

 

[dime line]

We should not have to give up days off/longer rotations to get more bases! All of these bases are MAJOR CITIES and don't warrant this schedule change! The bases would have happened eventually because when the hiring starts again know one will come work here and move to one of 6 bases! (This has already been proven in the past) so to remain competitive they would have to add them either way. Also no Flops guys are going to come to the Flex side and uproot family and to move to one of our stellar 6 bases. So what they are doing is taking advantage of the situation and getting something for nothing.

Bingo

 

[el raton]

We should not have to give up days off/longer rotations to get more bases! All of these bases are MAJOR CITIES and don't warrant this schedule change! The bases would have happened eventually because when the hiring starts again know one will come work here and move to one of 6 bases! (This has already been proven in the past) so to remain competitive they would have to add them either way. Also no Flops guys are going to come to the Flex side and uproot family and to move to one of our stellar 6 bases. So what they are doing is taking advantage of the situation and getting something for nothing.

...but our longest rotation is no longer than your average rotation....

You guys help set the bar for our long rotation.

 

[993_Pilot]

...but our longest rotation is no longer than your average rotation....

You guys help set the bar for our long rotation.

This is true. However, In a 31 day month on a standard 8/7 schedule, we can only work a maximum of 17 days. With 8/4/8/4/8/4 you could potentially work up to 23, and your shortest time off is way less than our 7 days. You guys are setting 2 new bars there.

We should not have to give up days off/longer rotations to get more bases! All of these bases are MAJOR CITIES and don't warrant this schedule change! The bases would have happened eventually because when the hiring starts again know one will come work here and move to one of 6 bases! (This has already been proven in the past) so to remain competitive they would have to add them either way. Also no Flops guys are going to come to the Flex side and uproot family and to move to one of our stellar 6 bases. So what they are doing is taking advantage of the situation and getting something for nothing.

Someone who gets it.

 

[TWA 2 ASA FO]

This is true. However, In a 31 day month on a standard 8/7 schedule, we can only work a maximum of 17 days. With 8/4/8/4/8/4 you could potentially work up to 23, and your shortest time off is way less than our 7 days. You guys are setting 2 new bars there.



Someone who gets it.

I am not sure how we could work up to 23 days.

8-4-8-4-8-4-8-4 is not an option.

You can only be forced to work up to 16 days in a 28 day bid period. So during a 31 day month the most they can force you to work would be 19 by my math.

The bar has not been changed, you are just unfamiliar with our bidding rules.

 

[SkyCat45]

What are the new bases for Flexjet?

 

[doh]

I am not sure how we could work up to 23 days.

8-4-8-4-8-4-8-4 is not an option.

You can only be forced to work up to 16 days in a 28 day bid period. So during a 31 day month the most they can force you to work would be 19 by my math.

The bar has not been changed, you are just unfamiliar with our bidding rules.

TWA is right. We have a different bid system and the yield has not changed. If you fly the max every bid period, you will fly 13x16=208. Minus your vacation, so I'll use my three weeks and get 193 days. From a practical standpoint it is lower for me because I don't bid max all the time. That will not change. The mix will change if I bid a secondary. Since pretty much everyone knows who I am (I type the way I talk) my MSP June-September bid is known to most of you. During that time my mix will change and I may get some 8-4 rotations, but my max of 16 days per BP will not change. I'll post my results, if anyone wants them, for the whole of next summer. Also, since those secondary bases are bases, you can voucher in and out for a rotation if you want. So I plan on visiting the parents in PHX this winter once or twice. Got that straight from the horses mouth too. You are not giving up days off for this change.

 

[Praetorian]

TWA is right. We have a different bid system and the yield has not changed. If you fly the max every bid period, you will fly 13x16=208. Minus your vacation, so I'll use my three weeks and get 193 days. From a practical standpoint it is lower for me because I don't bid max all the time. That will not change. The mix will change if I bid a secondary. Since pretty much everyone knows who I am (I type the way I talk) my MSP June-September bid is known to most of you. During that time my mix will change and I may get some 8-4 rotations, but my max of 16 days per BP will not change. I'll post my results, if anyone wants them, for the whole of next summer. Also, since those secondary bases are bases, you can voucher in and out for a rotation if you want. So I plan on visiting the parents in PHX this winter once or twice. Got that straight from the horses mouth too. You are not giving up days off for this change.

First, let me say I hope the see things improve in lots of ways for you guys because I think this will provide leverage for my union's negotiators when they head back to the bargaining table this fall.

So within that context I have a few questions. Yes I'd like to see the results of your upcoming bid, but I'm wondering are you a fairly senior guy? Will a junior guy be disproportionately disadvantaged by this new basing/scheduling system. Have you guys ever worked 8-day rotations in the past? Even if this new system doesn't result in more annual days worked, doesn't a 8/4 seem kinda harsh? Do you expect many pilots will change domiciles given the more onerous schedule?

 

[V1 Rotate]

First, let me say I hope the see things improve in lots of ways for you guys because I think this will provide leverage for my union's negotiators when they head back to the bargaining table this fall.

So within that context I have a few questions. Yes I'd like to see the results of your upcoming bid, but I'm wondering are you a fairly senior guy? Will a junior guy be disproportionately disadvantaged by this new basing/scheduling system. Have you guys ever worked 8-day rotations in the past? Even if this new system doesn't result in more annual days worked, doesn't a 8/4 seem kinda harsh? Do you expect many pilots will change domiciles given the more onerous schedule?

Yes to all (except for the seniority since I don't know who he is).

A junior pilot may be forced into longer rotations than he is used to unless he normally bids 7 or 8 day rotations. As it is now, no one can be forced into anything more than 6. This will only be the case if you opt to be in one of the new secondary bases.

We currently have the option of bidding for lines that have 8 day rotations that have a minimum of 5 off, I believe. I never bid them so I may be inaccurate on the minimum time off.

8/4's would suck, yes.

I believe there will be plenty of takers on the bases. Maybe not immediately since lots of guys have families and homes etc that will take time to make the move. I for one will be making my last drive to Dallas ASAP.

 

[The Architect]

Forced

I am not sure how we could work up to 23 days.

8-4-8-4-8-4-8-4 is not an option.

You can only be forced to work up to 16 days in a 28 day bid period. So during a 31 day month the most they can force you to work would be 19 by my math.

The bar has not been changed, you are just unfamiliar with our bidding rules.

Wow! "FORCED"

Interesting.

Company offers a policy change. Pilots vote. Change occurs or not.

So, no negotiations with regard to the proposed change. Take it or leave it. No direct supervision by pilot representatives (mainly because there aren't any) over the voting process or results.

Sounds real fair.

Especially that part that requires 8 days of work to get 4 days off. Now that's a great schedule that the rest of the pilots in the fractional industry will appreciate.

I wonder how Flight Options pilots negotiators will handle that when they go back to the table. Perhaps the Flight Options pilots will send Flexjet pilots thank you cards for putting them in that bargaining situation.

Get those votes in! You have until the 14th at noon!