FlexJet / Flight Options / SkyJet

[FR8DOG777]

I know you were not looking to pick a fight. I say we call the vote tomorrow, cuz if the unions out it will accelerate my retirement plans. Uncle has sucked enough life out of me already. Yes there was a time our leadership was cocky and thought they knew everything, after a few slices of humble pie they have simmered down a bit.

 

[BlueNose]

I know you were not looking to pick a fight. I say we call the vote tomorrow, cuz if the unions out it will accelerate my retirement plans. Uncle has sucked enough life out of me already. Yes there was a time our leadership was cocky and thought they knew everything, after a few slices of humble pie they have simmered down a bit.

Yep, they've been 'Ricci rolled' a few times now.

 

[V1 Rotate]

I know you were not looking to pick a fight. I say we call the vote tomorrow, cuz if the unions out it will accelerate my retirement plans. Uncle has sucked enough life out of me already. Yes there was a time our leadership was cocky and thought they knew everything, after a few slices of humble pie they have simmered down a bit.

The part I struggle with is trying to understand why on Earth would KR come in and turn our world upside down? And the reason I say that is because for the most part our morale is decent, with the exception of the long upgrades for our FO's. Flexjet attracted him because we're a money making machine. If anything, why wouldn't he want to bring Options up to Flexjet levels instead of bringing us down? We all held our breath when our pay and benefits were announced and again last week when the fleet plans were announced. So far he hasn't bent us over. Not saying he won't, but so far so good. If anything, you guys should be demanding that 1108 get the heck out of your way and negotiate in good faith with KR for what we have. And if you're still not satisfied, then bring in another union. What do you have to lose? I just tend to believe that if it were me and I had been beaten down for years like you guys that I think I'd try something different. I'm neither 100% pro nor anti-union. I believe that the company's culture dictates that need.

 

[DirtyBeech]

Perhaps. Admittedly, my comment was based on my own pulse of what I hear from our guys and the Options guys I run across. But I also have a feeling that if 1108 thought for a minute that the tide was in their favor that they'd be out front encouraging their members to support them in their efforts for a single system. Just my thoughts. Not looking for a fight.

Don't trust your pulse. Do the math. A combined pilot group vote ( with their furloughees voting) requires pretty close to 401 votes ( 50% +1) to decide the issue. Suppose that 25% of the Flex guys voted in favor of having a union. That leaves you with about 252 Flex pilots against. You now need 150 ish votes from their side to decertify. That's 31% of their entire group. Their union was voted in at close to an 80% clip, so now you need an additional 11% of their pilots to vote against their union versus the original vote.

Certainly it's possible, maybe even probable, that a union vote would be 65/35 on their side. But it sure as heck isn't a slam dunk, and it becomes far less certain for Flex guys seeking decertification if more than 1/4 of our group votes for a union. I personally think that that number would be closer to 1/3 if the votes were taken tomorrow based on what I've seen on th road. All that to say that I don't think either group, pro or against, is in any real hurry to vote because it's not a sure thing.

 

[Ludicrous Speed]

V1 Rotate - If anything, you guys should be demanding that 1108 get the heck out of your way and negotiate in good faith with KR for what we have. And if you're still not satisfied, then bring in another union.

If the 1108 was “out of the way”, exactly what legal means would we have for negotiating with Uncle? What legal responsibility would he have to negotiate – in good faith - with us?

Bring in another union? What “other” union? Even if there was another national, it took 4 years of negotiating – through the Great Recession – just to get a TA. And that doesn’t include the years spent prior to voting in the union.

Finally, if the “what we have” refers to FlexJet’s pay & work rules, you don’t really “have” anything. You’re an at-will employee. Everything is subject to change at a moment’s notice & at management’s sole discretion.

 

[FR8DOG777]

We have every intention of fighting ricci to be brought up to your level, with the protections of a union contract behind us. It was apparent they had no intentions of bringing us up to your level, because they could have reopened negotiations instead of extending the last year of the contract. We will have to fight uncle tooth and nail for a 10 cent raise. He does not want us to have the contract protections which is why he is fighting so hard to abolish our union. No one here wants you to be pulled down to the cesspool were living in. Ask yourself this, what are your options when Ricci starts micromanaging you guys, comes looking to lower your salaries, and starts piling on all these extra sentient and spinnaker trips killing your qol on the road? We live it every day for 1/2 the pay.

 

[hammer2]

After the meeting I came away with the sense Ricci's loyalty lays with the Option's pilots. I'm starting to think the union is the least of our concerns.

 

[jetwash]

After the meeting I came away with the sense Ricci's loyalty lays with the Option's pilots. I'm starting to think the union is the least of our concerns.

Its not all the options pilots.

It is just to his handful of select pilots. That is why the pilots who are not the "select few" seek protection in the form of a CBA.

 

[hammer2]

Its not all the options pilots.

It is just to his handful of select pilots. That is why the pilots who are not the "select few" seek protection in the form of a CBA.

Maybe not the pilots so much as loyalty to Option's as a whole. With Options getting our older airplanes and the implementing of our operational logistics, we're left with nothing more than estimated projections of growth and a smaller fleet. It feels like we're being sucked dry...in fact, the first thing I thought of when I saw the slide show was that he's setting us up to suffer a similar fate that citation air suffered.

I could be wrong and hope I am. There's so little information being given and so many questions that its hard make an educated guess of what's up right now. But I'll say it again, the union is the least of our worries right now. Union or not it won't make a damn bit of difference, Ricci's going to do what he's gonna do.

 

[Fresh Air]

I could be wrong and hope I am.

I hope you are too, friend. You're right, there's no way of knowing for sure what Kenn and DAC might do.

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

V1
Its all about the $.

 

[V1 Rotate]

V1
Its all about the $.

I know that. We all know that. We all just have different perspectives on how to get the biggest piece of that pie as we can. There's any number of ways of going about it and no one knows for sure which way is best and history isn't always the most accurate indicator of things to come. I'm not anti-union but I am anti-Hoffa for my own personal reasons that transcends some silly feud between Options and Flexjet. So far, since September 5th, our pay hasn't changed and our benefits (as a whole) have gotten better. I pray that you guys aren't correct in predicting Kenn's dictatorial hammer comes slamming down on us some day. And if it does, then we'll all admit that you guys were correct and we'll adjust from there. But the preferred alternative is that one day you guys are brought up to our levels and we can all sing around the campfire. There is strength in numbers. And with Teamsters in the picture, we're all divided and unable to effectively negotiate terms with Kenn. But if we all stood together with Flexjet guys pushing for Options guys to get some pay and benefits increases, I believe there could be strength in that tactic.

All right, flame away...

 

[slowtation capt]

So far he hasn't bent us over. Not saying he won't, but so far so good.

Really, what about the "contract" that u guys had to sign. The one that basically threatens your job with every sentence that is written in it.

 

[V1 Rotate]

Really, what about the "contract" that u guys had to sign. The one that basically threatens your job with every sentence that is written in it.

When you have an industry leading contract then call us crazy. Let's not forget who has it best right now, even by your (and by "your," I mean Options) own admission.

 

[V1 Rotate]

Also, I'm not sure which contract you read??? Out of the 12 pages, there are only a few paragraphs, much less "every sentence that is written in it," that deal with why you could be terminated. Things such as showing up to work drunk, on drugs, besmirching the company in public, unethical conduct, fraud, dishonesty, repeated failure to do your job, etc. If someone worked for me that acted in these manners, I'd fire'em, too! However, I do take issue with one section that deals with what happens to your employment if you're out of work for personal or medical reasons beyond your control after 90 days. I'm not sure if that was ever properly addressed when brought up to management?

 

[DirtyBeech]

Actually, I'm pretty sure that it says the company can terminate your services for any reason at all. At will is at will so long as it's not a civil rights type of thing.

 

[slowtation capt]

When you have an industry leading contract then call us crazy. Let's not forget who has it best right now, even by your (and by "your," I mean Options) own admission.

I don't need an industry leading contract. I have a contract that makes me not an "at will" employee. A contract that can not get me fired if I say something to someone at an airport, hotel, etc... that they take the wrong way and run to management and say that I was bad mouthing the company. Being that the contract Ricci gave you guys says exactly that. What about Ricci saying they won't touch your pay for 1 year. That would really instill confidence in me as to what is going to happen to your pay in 1 year.

Here is the thing, Flops might not make the most money out there. But a contract is much more than that. I have no fear of telling them I will not be going over 14 hrs, on day 1 or even day 8 on my way home. If they can't get me home in 14 hrs, they need to change the schedule, or if I get home the next day, I get my comp time. I don't need to fear telling them that I will not fly over 10/24, that I am fatigued, etc......

And the biggest of them all. I know exactly where I stand when Ricci gets a big fat check from someone to buy the company, or he decides that he wants to stay forever in his Cabo house and never think about Options again. Because when Ricci is gone, my contract says these are my working conditions and rules. Whoever can not come in and change it on a whim, like your vacation and sick time that Ricci made into an all for one PTO.

 

[dime line]

Actually look what happened to our head cheerleader of HR (Hr Vice President) at Options, (Anguish wife )she has been here so long and was thought to be untouchable, apparently she said something Ricci didn't like and she now is out of a job. Just like that gone!

But hey you Flex pilots know better about Ricci, he hasn't messed with you yet..right?

Oh yea, FLOPS tracks (FLOPS lingo...Matrix) how many maintenance write ups a pilot makes.

 

[V1 Rotate]

I don't need an industry leading contract. I have a contract that makes me not an "at will" employee. A contract that can not get me fired if I say something to someone at an airport, hotel, etc... that they take the wrong way and run to management and say that I was bad mouthing the company. Being that the contract Ricci gave you guys says exactly that. What about Ricci saying they won't touch your pay for 1 year. That would really instill confidence in me as to what is going to happen to your pay in 1 year.

Here is the thing, Flops might not make the most money out there. But a contract is much more than that. I have no fear of telling them I will not be going over 14 hrs, on day 1 or even day 8 on my way home. If they can't get me home in 14 hrs, they need to change the schedule, or if I get home the next day, I get my comp time. I don't need to fear telling them that I will not fly over 10/24, that I am fatigued, etc......

And the biggest of them all. I know exactly where I stand when Ricci gets a big fat check from someone to buy the company, or he decides that he wants to stay forever in his Cabo house and never think about Options again. Because when Ricci is gone, my contract says these are my working conditions and rules. Whoever can not come in and change it on a whim, like your vacation and sick time that Ricci made into an all for one PTO.

Being an at-will employee isn't the worst thing in the world. I've been treated better in this career as an at-will employee than I ever was at my two ALPA airlines. I'm not toting water for Kenn by any means, but having a union contract between he and us sure doesn't look too appetizing when you read the comments on here. That being said, if he screws us, I'll be right there to hold him accountable with whatever pressure we can bring.

We have many of the same provisions as well, including go-home day rules. And have since many years ago. They're not the greatest rules in the world, but no one is ever held in contempt for holding scheduling to them. And if circumstances prevent certain rules from being followed, such as getting home on time on the last day, then we are compensated for that as well. No questions asked. In the number of years that I've been here, you wouldn't believe how hard people have had to try and get fired from this place. In some guys' cases, we all finally breathed a sigh of relief when they finally couldn't justify giving them more chances.

Under Bombardier, we obviously had no contract, either. Someone, Kenn, came in and bought us. Fortunately, rumor has it anyway, our leadership stood up for us played a role in the pay and benefits that we were able to retain. Our vacation and sick time policies are actually for the better, almost, except that we did lose three days. But the system is better than what we had previously.

Actually, I'm pretty sure that it says the company can terminate your services for any reason at all. At will is at will so long as it's not a civil rights type of thing.

Not trying to be a wise guy here, but do you even have a copy of the Agreement? No where in there does it say that they can just fire you. The only "without cause" clause is in case of layoffs. Other than that, it's pretty cut and dry from my perspective.

 

[GooseHZ]

V1
Your an at will employee. Simple as that...your gone for any reason. Feel free to take your 2 page contract to court and see where that gets you.

That stove is hot don't touch it son......