Air Force to UAL New Hire

[xkuzme1]

So I (a punty little 10 year regional Captain) was making friendly banter with a United Pilot commuting from RIC to EWR today. I asked him what airplane he was on. He said the 737. Well thinking that because he was on the 737 in EWR he must be relatively new, I asked how long he had been with UAL. He said that he had been there since September, and he explained that he liked it a lot. Going along with the friendly mood of the conversation, I asked where he worked before. He said that he was with the Air Force. I then asked how he thought the transition from military to civilian life was. His reply blew me away!!!

He said, "Well United does not do a very good job of training Military Pilots". They have a lot to learn about what we need to learn!"

What the hell?!?!? Could he be serious? Shouldn't he already know how to do the job?

Why is he more qualified than the thousands of regional pilots if he needs "special training".

X

 

[Data]

In the old days, before General Lee ruined FI, I would have wagered a 100 pages. This should hit 5 though, for FI that's pretty good. Begin the Military vs Qualified Regional Captain debate...

 

[xkuzme1]

Not regional vs military at all...

How could someone think that they should get special training because of their background!?

If a regional pilot said... "They need to give me special training because I am obviously deficient", we would get schewered!

X

 

[crash312]

Try Part 121 regs, Rest rules, calling company on the ground (who to call, when to call), working with a two person crew. Exemption 3585.

All things the military guy has probably not been exposed to, and probably not taught very well by the airline.

I remember getting hired at a regional in 2002 (from a crappier regional) and having a few military guys in the class. This airline had been getting so many new guys with regional experience they basically stopped teaching the 121 stuff and focused solely on systems (initial and upgrade). I spent about 1 hour explaining reduced and compensatory rest to the them, about 59 more minutes than the airline spent.

They weren't lacking anything, just actually needed to be taught real world stuff they would be dealing with on a daily basis that they didn't deal with in the military.

 

[densoo]

It's possible that the largely DIY academic and sim prep at UAL made him think it wasn't suitable for military pilots when in reality it may not be suitable for any pilot. He was seeing UAL training as different from the military when it may be that UAL training is different from every other flying flying organization, including the military.

 

[scoreboardII]

Face it, airlines don't train any more, they test.

 

[densoo]

Face it, airlines don't train any more, they test.

Our educational system has traded teaching for testing, too. Maybe there's a connection.

 

[B6Driver]

When and if enough pilots fail this area of training or when the training costs climb too high due to excess "extra training",the airlines may re-inflate the initial training program.

 

[General Lee]

In the old days, before General Lee ruined FI, I would have wagered a 100 pages. This should hit 5 though, for FI that's pretty good. Begin the Military vs Qualified Regional Captain debate...

Don't hate the playa, hate the game.... And, learn to debate while you're at it.

This one is easy. Most Air Force pilots (I've flown with tons of them) have 6 month courses to learn a new AF plane. Obviously, an airline course is like a "fire hose" to them.

As far as why AF pilots are chosen over a Regional pilot? I would bet most HR people think that if the AF spent time and money training him and testing him over his/her career, then he or she should be able to fly a 737 etc.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[sat74]

As far as why AF pilots are chosen over a Regional pilot?

Or.. because many are the typical "yes" "get the mission done" types that have a hard time learning to fly the contract and uphold the CBA. Seen it too many times.

 

[scoreboardII]

Don't hate the playa, hate the game.... And, learn to debate while you're at it.

This one is easy. Most Air Force pilots (I've flown with tons of them) have 6 month courses to learn a new AF plane. Obviously, an airline course is like a "fire hose" to them.

As far as why AF pilots are chosen over a Regional pilot? I would bet most HR people think that if the AF spent time and money training him and testing him over his/her career, then he or she should be able to fly a 737 etc.


Bye Bye---General Lee

You are so full of crap as usual.

A 6 month course front to back includes the 95% of stuff you do beyond what it takes to taxi, takeoff and land, which is all you ever do in the airlines.

Most of those courses firehose you with less than a week or two of academics, tests, a few sims, and your butt is in the jet inside two weeks. To do a takeoff, landing and some approaches. Which is all you ever do in an airline.

Then you spend 5.5 months figuring out how to do that and drop bombs or pallets or such.

 

[scoreboardII]

Or.. because many are the typical "yes" "get the mission done" types that have a hard time learning to fly the contract and uphold the CBA. Seen it too many times.

No, it's because they have been around the block and hope they can provide some stability to the system which loves to see a group of errant pilots vote themselves out of a job. Maybe that's why airlines love the military guy, we want the job to last.

 

[Shrek]

It may have to do with how the Military and Airlines go about their business. Flows vs. Read and do checklists are just the start of the fun.
It would have been nice if he would have forwarded his concerns to the UAL Training Committee because they have former military drivers in that committee that could have made his training go a lot smoother.

 

[xkuzme1]

Good for him for getting the job. No problem with that at all. We all deserve an EQUAL shot... But that is not really what my post is about. More the fact the he thought that he should have been coddled during training more because he was not spoon fed information appropriately.

This is what you need to know. Here is a stack of books... Learn it or you'll fail. Any questions? Like regionals do anything any different!? Not really.

 

[gutshotdraw]

So I (a punty little 10 year regional Captain) was making friendly banter with a United Pilot commuting from RIC to EWR today. I asked him what airplane he was on. He said the 737. Well thinking that because he was on the 737 in EWR he must be relatively new, I asked how long he had been with UAL. He said that he had been there since September, and he explained that he liked it a lot. Going along with the friendly mood of the conversation, I asked where he worked before. He said that he was with the Air Force. I then asked how he thought the transition from military to civilian life was. His reply blew me away!!!

He said, "Well United does not do a very good job of training Military Pilots". They have a lot to learn about what we need to learn!"

What the hell?!?!? Could he be serious? Shouldn't he already know how to do the job?

Why is he more qualified than the thousands of regional pilots if he needs "special training".

X

Of course he's serious.

I'm guessing he wasn't talking about flying the airplane.

It takes a little time to learn the mundane things about life at an airline that a 10 year regional guy takes for granted that a military pilot might not have ever dealt with.

Gate agents. Flight attendants. ACARS. Contracts. Commuting. Part 117. Food in the terminal that won't kill you. You get the idea.

Doesn't mean he shouldn't get the job. Just means he wishes there were better training for the operations he might not be familiar with.

I think it's a good thing this guy realizes he doesn't know what he doesn't know and wants help learning about it. Far better than the arrogant a$$ that thinks he knows it all.

I've been getting paid to fly jets in the civilian world for 23 years now but if I went to an airline tomorrow I'd be lost amid the minutae of properly reading a trip pattern, or how to bid a line, or how to not get screwed by crew scheduling.

By the same token, we had to retrain an airline retiree that joined our little fractional circus when he asked what an FBO was.....among other little gaps in his experience.

Doesn't mean he couldn't fly the crap out of the airplane. The true value of a pilot is learning the ins and outs of their particular operation and applying that knowledge to move the metal safely and efficiently.

 

[DCAA320]

So I (a punty little 10 year regional Captain) was making friendly banter with a United Pilot commuting from RIC to EWR today. I asked him what airplane he was on. He said the 737. Well thinking that because he was on the 737 in EWR he must be relatively new, I asked how long he had been with UAL. He said that he had been there since September, and he explained that he liked it a lot. Going along with the friendly mood of the conversation, I asked where he worked before. He said that he was with the Air Force. I then asked how he thought the transition from military to civilian life was. His reply blew me away!!!

He said, "Well United does not do a very good job of training Military Pilots". They have a lot to learn about what we need to learn!"

What the hell?!?!? Could he be serious? Shouldn't he already know how to do the job?





Why is he more qualified than the thousands of regional pilots if he needs "special training".

X

Because maybe he can fly the plane better than you, but needs some CRM enhancement depending on his background. Many older civilian captains are lost as far as CRM so his unfamiliarity is not unfamiliar. Maybe the airline knows he will show up to work on time. Too many variables.

 

[DCAA320]

Or.. because many are the typical "yes" "get the mission done" types that have a hard time learning to fly the contract and uphold the CBA. Seen it too many times.

Had a captain like you at AE, read me the riot act because I got to parking lot in 30 minutes while we had stranded pax. I just said listen MF, I am he to fly my ass off and get the fu(k out. He was like you should always take the 2 hours or whatever it was back then because the CBA said so. Well he is probably still there or flowed through.

 

[pilotyip]

remember these military pilots get their comm/MEL/inst by taking a 40 question test on part 91, they may not fly in the civilian world for years after getting that ticket They fly by an almost complete different set of rules compared to the civilian world. Flying the airplane is not the big deal, inst skills are inst skills, it is moving into a new operating environment that has a steep learning curve.

 

[Turtle21]

It may have to do with how the Military and Airlines go about their business. Flows vs. Read and do checklists are just the start of the fun.
It would have been nice if he would have forwarded his concerns to the UAL Training Committee because they have former military drivers in that committee that could have made his training go a lot smoother.

There are only three things any new pilot needs to know.

Study your ass off because your training period is extremely abbreviated because a pilot is not generating revenue in training.

Smile and "just be happy to be here". You are here. Nobody cares what you did before you were here.

Save all your constructive comments for the day after you retire. You and your retired buddies will need stuff to talk about.

 

[waveflyer]

Because maybe he can fly the plane better than you, but needs some CRM enhancement depending on his background. Many older civilian captains are lost as far as CRM so his unfamiliarity is not unfamiliar. Maybe the airline knows he will show up to work on time. Too many variables.

Please^^^