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[CA1900]

You absolutely insinuated the pilots use out fatigue provisions to manipulate the schedule. That was not my experience before the furlough, and it doesn't jive with what I'm hearing from my friends who remain.

That's been my experience since I got here. We use the fatigue provisions to keep an unsafe schedule from endangering us. Simple as that. There are occasionally other issues, like a bad hotel, but 95% of my fatigue calls are generated by a schedule that doesn't take human factors into account.

Since our scheduling department doesn't incorporate the science behind circadian rhythms, I use tools like Jeppesen's CrewAlert, which does. (There's a free lite version as well.)

 

[Hogprint]

Geez...would you expect anything else...

Keeps life interesting, scares the living daylights out of a few, costs everyone a lot of money, and keeps bar bills high!

Actually, I would expect something else...

Trotting out the same tired playbook that was used eight years ago ( and arguably didn't work then), using the same tired arguments that have proven to bear no fruit, and now another "in the know" worker bee who comes in like a lamb but will crescendo like a lion before leaving like a lamb again as his predecessors did to never grace the forum again.

Did I miss anything?

You'd of thought they'd have learned from past mistakes. At least try a different approach this go around. That would keep it interesting. We've seen this movie before.

 

[msculley6905]

That's been my experience since I got here. We use the fatigue provisions to keep an unsafe schedule from endangering us. Simple as that. There are occasionally other issues, like a bad hotel, but 95% of my fatigue calls are generated by a schedule that doesn't take human factors into account.

Since our scheduling department doesn't incorporate the science behind circadian rhythms, I use tools like Jeppesen's CrewAlert, which does. (There's a free lite version as well.)

While keeping the body's clock on the same schedule can be imporant, the need to cover more flights with less assets prohibits that from being something we can do with any sort of regularity. Anyways, plenty of fatigue calls occur that show it's not aways a matter of being too tired for safe flight (fatigue on last day after 15 hrs rest night before, fatigue on evening spares multiple days in a row, etc), but it's never questioned, things get fixed, we move on. This is one of many reasons for big gaps in time from show to go times, or staying onFBO duty after arriving...you know, anything that some of you deem as wasteful/punative scheduling/pilot hating/term of the week.

 

[msculley6905]

It is amazing how every time we enter Sec 6/IBB, a new CMH employee shows up with a peep behind the green curtain to quell all fears of the pilots.

The names do change but the company message stays the same.

My prediction is the tone will go from helpful to contentious as negotiations heat up.

If this is refrence to me, i assue you I couldn't care less about the negotiations, other that both pilot and company get it done to something mutually beneficial. If it doesnt, there's no pilots for me to schedule, and you can figure out the rest from there.

 

[-FlyAuburn-]

While keeping the body's clock on the same schedule can be imporant, the need to cover more flights with less assets prohibits that from being something we can do with any sort of regularity. Anyways, plenty of fatigue calls occur that show it's not aways a matter of being too tired for safe flight (fatigue on last day after 15 hrs rest night before, fatigue on evening spares multiple days in a row, etc), but it's never questioned, things get fixed, we move on. This is one of many reasons for big gaps in time from show to go times, or staying onFBO duty after arriving...you know, anything that some of you deem as wasteful/punative scheduling/pilot hating/term of the week.

Here's an idea: recall the 495 furloughed pilots. Problem solved.

 

[Rubber Ducky]

...This is one of many reasons for big gaps in time from show to go times, or staying onFBO duty after arriving...you know, anything that some of you deem as wasteful/punative scheduling/pilot hating/term of the week.

Schedulers are too tough on themselves. They must think that they suck so bad when someone fatigues that they have to punish themselves by adding two more hours to everyone's duty day to increase fatigue calls and really show them how bad they are at scheduling. What do you call that disease when you inflict pain upon yourself? I feel bad for them. Now that FlyAuburn guy... He's a friggin genius and has the obvious solution.

 

[DC-4]

That Auburn guy might be right, however the company is not going to recall during negotiations. It's pretty hard to push a narrative that the company is shrinking and planes continue to be retired with no replacement. The last company line was that while the company is gaining owners back there in small shares or cards so it requires less planes and pilots. Therefor, recalls maybe in 2017. Also lets be honest as long as pilots continue to pick up extended days the company can do more with less. It is literally fing yourself in the long run, did anyone see how many extended days there was last quarter, it's shameful to do that while guys are furloughed, all it's doing is extending the furlough.

 

[imacdog]

Munchausen by proxy?

 

[billybob]

You extend=F-ing me and your brothers.

STOP EXTENDING

Tell everyone you fly with to stop. It's as close to being a scab as one can get. Not the same but not far off.

 

[av8trinabarrel]

Ain't gonna happen. Here we are 4 years later and the number of extenders is mind boggling. Unity at NJ is a myth (and many other places in aviation)!!!

 

[msculley6905]

Here's an idea: recall the 495 furloughed pilots. Problem solved.

I don't have any official information to back up my belief, but from what I see from day to day, I do not believe we are short pilots. Certain fleets, perhaps on some days, but nothing that puts trips in jeopardy of being flown.

I have yet to say to myself, even on very busy days, "if we only had more pilots to choose from, things would be so much better"....the real stress on the operation is something totally different.

....from a scheduling standpoint of course....can't speak for QOL on the road for the flying group.

 

[DC-4]

Listen with all due respect that is insain. I will make a deal with you, do not offer one single extended day to a pilot in a quarter and I will agree with yyou. But with the number of extended days that are beening offered that is complete BS.

 

[CE750Driver]

Listen with all due respect that is insain. I will make a deal with you, do not offer one single extended day to a pilot in a quarter and I will agree with yyou. But with the number of extended days that are beening offered that is complete BS.

What's worse is the guys who are taking them!

 

[Pervis]

....... (fatigue on last day after 15 hrs rest night before, fatigue on evening spares multiple days in a row, etc), but it's never questioned, things get fixed, we move on.

This speaks volumes as to how clueless you are. From day 2 through 4 (3 days) I put in nearly 40 hrs of duty, blocked nearly 20 hours, and flew 13 legs. Then I was given 17 hrs off, shifting my start time 8 hours to the night shift, and given a trip to the west coast arriving at 0200 PDT. And you think we should just take a nap midday and get 'er done? Your implication is not only insulting, but darn right dangerous. If you don't start to consider the human factor, you're going to kill someone.

It didn't happen, as I did indeed fatigue. But there are those intimidated by that URP report that will, not if, but when, cause a serious situation. Asking anyone to determine their level of fitness when fatigue is involved is like asking a comatose patient to diagnose himself. The insidious nature of fatigue is well documented, and you are gambling with your own career, not to mention my life.

PS: Just to clarify, I would have landed 20 hours after I woke up. Try that some time before you insinuate fatigue calls are unwarranted. All the while worried about how cold your coffee gets while sitting behind your computer.

 

[gutshotdraw]

I guess my fleet isn't short-staffed. Haven't been asked to extend in forever.

But Homie don't extend anyhow...