Southwest Line on Credit?

[SWA Bubba]

Maybe you should call Warren Buffett, he seems to disagree

http://www.warrenbuffett.com/does-warren-buffett-think-youll-make-money-with-airline-stocks/

He was talking about airline stocks in general, NOT Southwest Airlines in particular, which was the latest point in this thread. Nice misdirect though, Fred. How about if it is phrased this way: "According to Warren Buffet, airline stocks in general suck. According to Kiplinger's Best Investment Informant, Southwest Airlines' stock sucks the least [that is, is the best of the heap]."

Does that make you feel better?

By the way, this kind of misdirection is the reason Wave talks about "6 anonymous hardliners." You and Dicko and Fletch (and a few others) continually skew every single bit of industry information, good or bad, into "Southwest sucks, and AirTran is the best ever." Everything Southwest did or does is stupid and manifested incompetence, while everything AirTran did or does is perfection. From your stated perception, it's a wonder that Southwest didn't perish in its first decade, instead of becoming the most successful, most profitable airline in history. It's a wonder that AirTran isn't ruling the world with its paragon of air service, instead of being rife with employee discontent, and being shopped out by its CEO (and make no mistake, guys, you WERE shopped out...).

We get it. You're unhappy with the situation. I'm sorry you're upset that your AT Captain seat wasn't immediately replaced with a SW Captain seat. I'm sorry you're upset that you don't get our pay until you fly under our colors. I'm sorry you're upset that you didn't come over here with relative seniority or even straight DOH, when the list makers compared the career expectations of the two airlines. In fact, like a lot of guys, I'm sorry our company ever bought yours in the first place.

However, that wasn't up to me, anymore than it was up to you. Your CEO put you on the block, and our CEO wrote the check. Neither of us can change that now (or the SLI that resulted). From where I sit, your choices going forward basically boil down to: 1) accept what happened, do your best to improve our collective lot, and someday reap the rewards; or 2) continue whining anonymously, like that will change anything, and keep saying that AirTran was the best airline ever, while Southwest sucks. Do you think that anyone really believes that anyway?

Bubba

 

[SWA Bubba]

I agree. I'm an employee i guess, acquired not hired, all that BS and I always pull 100% for my new masters, like a good sled dog should. I buy about 200$ worth of LUV stock every paycheck, I'm betting long term and am actually going to increase my monthly withholding to purchase stock. I'm also going to support mgmt 100% to keep costs down, to include plans to play hardball with those whiny SWAPA pilots.
i really don't need the money, i'm just here to meet chicks.

I guess I was wrong; there is a third choice that you've seemingly elected. You can pretend that you're moving on and trying, while at the same time continuing to whine anonymously by using sarcasm. Sort of combining the first two choices. Good one, Fred!

Bubba

P.S. By the way, I gotta' say that the tagline under your profile's screen name is certainly descriptive!

 

[freightdogfred]

He was talking about airline stocks in general, NOT Southwest Airlines in particular, which was the latest point in this thread. Nice misdirect though, Fred. How about if it is phrased this way: "According to Warren Buffet, airline stocks in general suck. According to Kiplinger's Best Investment Informant, Southwest Airlines' stock sucks the least [that is, is the best of the heap]."

Does that make you feel better?

By the way, this kind of misdirection is the reason Wave talks about "6 anonymous hardliners." You and Dicko and Fletch (and a few others) continually skew every single bit of industry information, good or bad, into "Southwest sucks, and AirTran is the best ever." Everything Southwest did or does is stupid and manifested incompetence, while everything AirTran did or does is perfection. From your stated perception, it's a wonder that Southwest didn't perish in its first decade, instead of becoming the most successful, most profitable airline in history. It's a wonder that AirTran isn't ruling the world with its paragon of air service, instead of being rife with employee discontent, and being shopped out by its CEO (and make no mistake, guys, you WERE shopped out...).

We get it. You're unhappy with the situation. I'm sorry you're upset that your AT Captain seat wasn't immediately replaced with a SW Captain seat. I'm sorry you're upset that you don't get our pay until you fly under our colors. I'm sorry you're upset that you didn't come over here with relative seniority or even straight DOH, when the list makers compared the career expectations of the two airlines. In fact, like a lot of guys, I'm sorry our company ever bought yours in the first place.

However, that wasn't up to me, anymore than it was up to you. Your CEO put you on the block, and our CEO wrote the check. Neither of us can change that now (or the SLI that resulted). From where I sit, your choices going forward basically boil down to: 1) accept what happened, do your best to improve our collective lot, and someday reap the rewards; or 2) continue whining anonymously, like that will change anything, and keep saying that AirTran was the best airline ever, while Southwest sucks. Do you think that anyone really believes that anyway?

Bubba

On the contrary. I have never said SW sucks. What I have said is that both SWAPA and SWA have not lived up to the spirit, if not the letter of the process agreement to the detriment of the groups going forward.
Numerous outside observers, completely unbiased, have agreed. If anyone comes on here and disagrees with you, waveflyer, redclown or any other SWAPA poster they get labeled as a SWA hater.

Airtran was a very nimble company, and could make changes in OPS in a matter of weeks. Southwest is like a supertanker, somebody yells down a pipe to the engine room and miles later the ship begins a slow turn. So be it. If I thought SW's demise was imminent, why would I be buying 500$/month worth of stock? Can you not read? but nice misdirection, as you put it.

I don't hate SW. I'm a stockholder. I hate the way SWAPA, and a few of the arrogant jackwagons that post on this board bash my former company, a company for all it's faults, I took great pride in working for and pulling 100% all the time for.

 

[texman]

For a new hire or junior pilot, the career expectations at SW are probably less than most other major airlines. 20 years to upgrade isn't much of a career to look forward to.

In another merger, expect the other shoe to fall, you will be giving up years of
seniority because of the career stagnation. Or you will be stapled to the bottom,
of another list.


The arbitrator won't have to look very hard either, and your buddy GK will be on the beach with Horton and Lorenzo. Good Luck!

What goes around, comes around! and I'm sure you'll get a lot of sympathy.

49% thats all i have to say

 

[freightdogfred]

P.S. By the way, I gotta' say that the tagline under your profile's screen name is certainly descriptive!

That tagline's been there long before this whole mess, but that's another story

 

[kwick]

49% thats all i have to say

Just because you are in the lower half of pilots I.Q. wise, doesn't mean
that you can't contribute.

 

[scoreboardII]

What I have said is that both SWAPA and SWA have not lived up to the spirit, if not the letter of the process agreement to the detriment of the groups going forward.
.

Spirit? You want SWA and SWAPA to follow the spirit of the agreement? Where is that written? What subsection is spirit mentioned? Where was the "spirit" from the AT MEC when GK asked them to ensure all pilots had a vote on the first SLI?

That's where your spirit went.

Karma, its not just a pretty girls name.

 

[waveflyer]

You think those guys are hard liners? What does that make you, the voice of reason? Hate to tell you, Wave, but many of the 1200 or so guys coming over next year share similar views as the "hard liners". Ask someone who lost the seat, base, and aircraft they bid and were awarded about how great Southwest is.
i am actually. It is very reasonable to know that SWA is the better job and as the buying entity needs a good SLI weighted in our favor. Loyalty ought to mean something- working for the purchasing carrier ought to mean something in a capitalist society. And the junior at SWA didn't get that. We weren't shown loyalty for the loyalty we showed. We're living with it though. And aren't patient with complainers on the AT side when we're moving forward.

I hate to tell you this. I have 6500 on my side, I've placated this AT got screwed line for too long- nobody will be patient at all with it. And what about our pilots who lose their base when senior AT pilots move in base? I got guys in my class being force based all over the east- but keep thinking you're victims and only the AT issues matter



If another airline gets caught up in this mess I'd be willing to bet they take it all the way to arbitration. Who the hell would be stupid enough to accept a deal after watching what happened to us? Nobody.

and....(?) would you expect GK not to "act in the best interests of his employees going forward" ? They can try whatever they like- go ahead and game swa like you guys "tried" to do. That doesn't work for any individual employee or employee group here-

 

[kwick]

Spirit? You want SWA and SWAPA to follow the spirit of the agreement? Where is that written? What subsection is spirit mentioned? Where was the "spirit" from the AT MEC when GK asked them to ensure all pilots had a vote on the first SLI?

That's where your spirit went.

Karma, its not just a pretty girls name.

It's called "The Golden Rule," some people may call it the "Meeting of the
Minds," or the "Spirit of the Agreement."

It only works when you are dealing with people with integrity and a
reputation to uphold.

Southwest has shown their lack of integrity, and their reputation is forever tarnished.

Enjoy the ride down!

Your reputation sucks!

You have demonstrated a lack of integrity and without that you are
nothing!

Sorry Herb, that you had to witness this.

P.S. Southwest apps are now on file at Delta, USAir, United, American and even Spirit Airlines.

 

[slaquer5]

That tagline's been there long before this whole mess, but that's another story

Not to mention the front guns under that are extreme !



Major back problems in the future

 

[SWA Bubba]

It's called "The Golden Rule," some people may call it the "Meeting of the
Minds," or the "Spirit of the Agreement."

It only works when you are dealing with people with integrity and a
reputation to uphold.

Southwest has shown their lack of integrity, and their reputation is forever tarnished.

Enjoy the ride down!

Your reputation sucks!

You have demonstrated a lack of integrity and without that you are
nothing!

Sorry Herb, that you had to witness this.

P.S. Southwest apps are now on file at Delta, USAir, United, American and even Spirit Airlines.

Really? You're going to work for Spirit now? Good luck! (and I mean that sincerely...)

Bubba

 

[Phlintstone]

Quote from waaahflyer:
"And what about our pilots who lose their base when senior AT pilots move in base? I got guys in my class being force based all over the east -"

I really do not care. If the SLI would've been more spread out seniority-wise there would've been a lot less scrambling of bases. YOU and SWAPA created it, not AT folks. Now you have to live with it. YOU and SWAPA wanted all the CA seats, which created super-senior FOs. YOU and SWAPA were too clueless to see it coming now you complain about it...get over it...YOU and SWAPA screwed your buddies. How do the Irish say it...GFY.

Phred

 

[jball2]

Both sides suffered from mismanaged expectations. Being and Atlanta guy I get to hear a lot from both sides. The bigggest problem I see is the use of broad brushes to paint both groups. SWAPA pilots this and ALPA pilots that. There are plenty of whiners on both sides and nothing is going to get solved here. I never wanted to work at AT and there are plenty of AT pilots who didn't (don't) want to work for SWA. That's the way it is.

In my eleven years SWA has been very good to me and I hope that in the future, our new brothers and sisters will find healing in the many good things that this place is. Let's pull the rope in the same direction and make it GREATfor all of us.

 

[texman]

Just because you are in the lower half of pilots I.Q. wise, doesn't mean
that you can't contribute.

I think you know what I mean. If we bought another airline we will not go to arbitration. It will be a 49% sale of assets. Why don't we all just stop the pissing match.

 

[PCL_128]

He likes to talk about those things because they are true, much to your dismay.

Why would it be to my dismay? I really don't care, seeing as how I won't be around for any of it.

I get that fact that you don't like Gary Kelly, but he's performing atrociously? That's pretty funny.

Actually, my feelings towards Gary are of indifference, not dislike. I don't like how he treated his new employees, but that's pretty much what I expect from airline management, and I don't take any of it personally. I just don't think he's a very good businessman. And the share price indicates that most investors agree with me.

Let's see, he's continued with year over year profits. More than 40 of them if I'm not mistaken.

The margins are atrocious.

He has the cleaniest/strongest balance sheet among his peers, actually has for several years.

A company that owns out-right more than 2/3rds of their fleet. Unheard of in this industry.

Like I said, the balance sheet is the strong suit. The problem is that he doesn't seem to know what to do with all of the cash to generate shareholder value.

He's pushing for 15% ROIC

What he's "pushing for" is irrelevant. To date, he's failed.

My shareholder value is up over 50%. I think I've done slightly better than your idea of a CD, but that doesn't fit in well with your 'anti-GK' rhetoric. Don't let your BS actually get in the way of the facts.

Then you're the luckiest SOB in LUV shareholder land and just bought your shares at exactly the right time. Someone who bought shares 5 years ago is at exactly the same place he started. Someone who's been a loyal shareholder for 10 years has seen the value of his shares decrease by 20%. Now, granted, all of that wasn't Gary's tenure, but the last five years was.

Gary's always talking about "own it moments." You should let him "own" his lack of performance.

 

[redflyer65]

Gary's always talking about "own it moments." You should let him "own" his lack of performance.

Your right, maybe I should give him credit for his continuation of year over year profits. I don't see those ending anytime time soon either.

Can you name one in the past say 40 years with the same or better performance?

 

[PCL_128]

Yeah, let's start with Richard Anderson.

 

[kwick]

I just think that it's fair that if your airline gets bought, you should keep your seat and
base. Why is that too much to ask?

 

[maxblast72]

Someone who bought shares 5 years ago is at exactly the same place he started. Someone who's been a loyal shareholder for 10 years has seen the value of his shares decrease by 20%. Now, granted, all of that wasn't Gary's tenure, but the last five years was.

Gary Kelly became CEO of SWA in July 2004. If an investor would have made a $100K investment in all 4 of the big 4, LUV, AMR, DAL, and UAL in July 2004, here is what that investment would approximately be worth today:

AMR: $0
DAL: $0
UAL: $0
LUV: $90K

While SWA margins are not as high as they were 10 or 20 years ago, their 40 years of consecutive profits and history of being financially conservative has created a balance sheet that the Big 3 will not have anytime soon. A strong balance sheet is one of the biggest factors in pilot job security during economic downturns or energy price spikes.

 

[scoreboardII]

It's called "The Golden Rule," some people may call it the "Meeting of the
Minds," or the "Spirit of the Agreement."

It only works when you are dealing with people with integrity and a
reputation to uphold.

Southwest has shown their lack of integrity, and their reputation is forever tarnished.

Enjoy the ride down!

Your reputation sucks!

You have demonstrated a lack of integrity and without that you are
nothing!

Sorry Herb, that you had to witness this.

P.S. Southwest apps are now on file at Delta, USAir, United, American and even Spirit Airlines.

please detail for the crowd exactly what section of any agreement has been breached? Oh, that's right, none have.