Enough!

[General Lee]

Thanks for your opinion but I think this is a debate for regional pilots.

I'm sorry, but there is no restriction on who may or may not give an opinion. If you don't like my opinion, then put me on IGNORE. Your conclusion about DOH portable seniority on the Regional side only isn't very likely because of the choice of jobs when you start out. Again, go out of the country, like Freebrd did with his friend Dahni, and there may be some opportunities for your experience to go DEC. Good Luck.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[jetstream]

My guess is you have time to prepare, but your turn is coming.

I absolutley agree that my time is coming and so is everyone elses. And when they've made the circut they'll start over at the beginning and do it again.

That's why we need to do something.

 

[jetstream]

What I can't decide is this: Is managment at the other DCI carriers angry with Delta for keeping a competior afloat then using them to undercut us and in doing so taking away potential business? Or are they happy to see the wage scale lowered so they can use it to attempt to lower their own labor costs.

Which do they want more, additional flying or lower wages for the current level of flying?

Hmmmmm

 

[General Lee]

What I can't decide is this: Is managment at the other DCI carriers angry with Delta for keeping a competior afloat then using them to undercut us and in doing so taking away potential business? Or are they happy to see the wage scale lowered so they can use it to attempt to lower their own labor costs.

Which do they want more, additional flying or lower wages for the current level of flying?

Hmmmmm

Probably. But why didn't other DCI carriers come in and bail out PNCL? DL was the ONLY one to give them DIP financing to get out of BK. Where were the other regionals then?

If the other feeders want to create their own business, like Indy Air did, then they can try that, but they also know what happened when that did occur. It's a tough business. The problem was PNCL went BK, and that allowed other things to happen.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[captainv]

I absolutley agree that my time is coming and so is everyone elses. And when they've made the circut they'll start over at the beginning and do it again.

That's why we need to do something.

What leverage do you have to induce change? Could your airline survive the loss of its 50-seat fleet? (That's the probable threat you would face, if not a shutdown.) Unity among regionals is a nice thought, but as long as one carrier is seeking more lift to ensure its survival, it won't happen. Good luck to you, though.

 

[Flyer1015]

I actually like the idea of national longevity list, instead of a national seniority list. That way, you don't bounce someone out of their seat or base, and start at the bottom of the list. However, you should be compensated for your past experience, as people are in just about every other profession. No reason a 20 year Aloha guy should have to start over at 44/hr at VX or 38.50/hr at NK.

 

[jetstream]

Probably. But why didn't other DCI carriers come in and bail out PNCL? DL was the ONLY one to give them DIP financing to get out of BK. Where were the other regionals then?

If the other feeders want to create their own business, like Indy Air did, then they can try that, but they also know what happened when that did occur. It's a tough business. The problem was PNCL went BK, and that allowed other things to happen.


Bye Bye---General Lee

Why would a company bail out one of its competitors?

Who said anything about starting our own airline?

 

[JD2003]

Quit. Do it now. I did and my life is much better.

Why do you think Delta is playing you for a cheap contract? So they have the money to pay the Delta pilots that why. I propose that all regional pilots get together and walk off the job...not to return until we have a seniority number at the parent company and a respectable wage for the equipment. Its time to fall on our swords. I'm doing it and its not that bad.

To hell with regional airlines and to hell with alpa.

 

[flyboyike]

I actually like the idea of national longevity list, instead of a national seniority list. That way, you don't bounce someone out of their seat or base, and start at the bottom of the list. However, you should be compensated for your past experience, as people are in just about every other profession. No reason a 20 year Aloha guy should have to start over at 44/hr at VX or 38.50/hr at NK.

Makes sense, doesn't it?

 

[flyboyike]

But that would likely have to be via ALPA. I think we need to break free of them.

Doesn't have to be ALPA, can be UFCW, for all I care.

 

[aircombat]

I actually like the idea of national longevity list, instead of a national seniority list. That way, you don't bounce someone out of their seat or base, and start at the bottom of the list. However, you should be compensated for your past experience, as people are in just about every other profession. No reason a 20 year Aloha guy should have to start over at 44/hr at VX or 38.50/hr at NK.

Worse idea ever!! It's a good way to never get hired anywhere when Delta furloughs you. Why would another airline hire you at year 20 pay when they can hire someone right out of school at year 1?

What would be best is get rid of longevity pay all together. It's an antiquated system that has plagued senior airlines, has major financial downfalls for paying student loans and investment compound interest. If you do have to start over at least it wouldn't hurt so much.

Pilot shortage is legacy's carrot as a national seniority list is ALPA's carrot. neither is going to happen

 

[livin'thesim]

Agreed. Longevity pay, not seniority is the real culprit that keeps pilots trapped in bad companies.

Why should a guy who has loyally served your COMPETITOR for 20 years come over and get higher pay than you, when you have served your own company for ten years?

Stupid.

One wage per aircraft type, regardless of longevity. A captain is a captain is a captain. Seniority does not make a pilot more efficient or more safe.

A junior captain is just as likely to be a safer pilot than a senior one.

 

[big shacks]

Blame CANADair

 

[jetstream]

A captain is a captain is a captain. Seniority does not make a pilot more efficient or more safe.

A junior captain is just as likely to be a safer pilot than a senior one.

I disagree.
Have they both been trained to the same standard? Yes.

Do both have the same level of knowledge that can't be gained in training but only learned through experience? Absolutely not.

How do I know this? I routinely ride the jump seat conducting line checks and crew observations. Experience does make a difference.

 

[flyboyike]

Worse idea ever!! It's a good way to never get hired anywhere when Delta furloughs you. Why would another airline hire you at year 20 pay when they can hire someone right out of school at year 1?

Ostensibly the number of flight school kids is decreasing.