Enough!

[damnflyboy]

We can all try...but...like everything else labor tries: The front will look like a cannon and the bang, at best, will poof out like a fart. The alternative is a backfire. People just need to stop being pilots. There are too many of us, hence options for management.

 

[General Lee]

Your place on the national senority list would be determined by your date of hire at the regional for which you are working when it is enacted. If you change airlines you are inserted into that airlines list based on that. So yes you could bump someone out of a seat and someone could do it to you if they were to come to your airline. Cuts both ways.

One thing that would have to be decided, and I don't know where I would stand on this yet, is this. Would this system apply if a pilot switches airlines on his/her own volition or is forced out? But I'm inclined to think I would want it to work in both cases. This way, just like in other businesses, if we want to change employers we can do so without having to lose everything we've worked to accomplish. This would also be benefical if a pilot needed to relocate to another part of the country for some reason. Instead of having to commute, if a regional in that area is hiring, he /she could just change airlines and be closer to home.

In the business world if you decide to change employers to do the same kind of work, you just switch companies and take your experience and knowledge with you. You could either move up or down a little at the new company but would be pretty close to what you left. Why should we be so different.

The way we do things is antiquated. We need some new thinking. Time to get out of this box we've built around ourselves.

A National seniority list is only fair if you had NO CHOICE on which airline to go to. IF you did have a choice, then you probably chose wrong. That isn't anyone else's fault. There are choices in life, and some people choose wrong. There are countries out there that hire Direct Entry Captains, meaning your experience is portable. Garuda in Indonesia is currently looking for RJ Captains to fly their new CRJ-1000s. Senior FOs at a Legacy may be waiting years to upgrade because of age 65, etc. What makes you think you should be put ahead of them? They have waited in line. You may need to start at the beginning of another line. Sorry.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[jetstream]

People just need to stop being pilots. There are too many of us, hence options for management.

I respectfully disagree. The problem is the current system. It's broke and outdated. Time for a new way.

I don't claim to be so smart as to have all the answers but I am smart enough to see when something is not working and a different solution needs to be found.

 

[jetstream]

A National seniority list is only fair if you had NO CHOICE on which airline to go to. IF you did have a choice, then you probably chose wrong. That isn't anyone else's fault. There are choices in life, and some people choose wrong. There are countries out there that hire Direct Entry Captains, meaning your experience is portable. Garuda in Indonesia is currently looking for RJ Captains to fly their new CRJ-1000s. Senior FOs at a Legacy may be waiting years to upgrade because of age 65, etc. What makes you think you should be put ahead of them? They have waited in line. You may need to start at the beginning of another line. Sorry.


Bye Bye---General Lee

This applies to regionals only, not legacy carriers. If you leave a regional for a legacy then, yes, you start over. Legacy pilots don't have a dog in this fight.

As for your comment about choosing wrong, an airline can be doing great, have top notch leadership, and have a bright future ahead of it when you get hired. Then years down the road there could be a change of management and the new team could run the place into the ground. No one can see the future. We all make decisions with the information available at the time.

 

[russtgol]

This applies to regionals only, not legacy carriers. If you leave a regional for a legacy then, yes, you start over. Legacy pilots don't have a dog in this fight.

As for your comment about choosing wrong, an airline can be doing great, have top notch leadership, and have a bright future ahead of it when you get hired. Then years down the road there could be a change of management and the new team could run the place into the ground. No one can see the future. We all make decisions with the information available at the time.

Sounds like every other industry Bozo..Ever been to Detroit?

 

[jetstream]

Sounds like every other industry Bozo..Ever been to Detroit?

My point exactly. In just about ever other job if your company went under you can take the skills you aquired there to another company.

If you worked your way up to master electrician at company A then you can be a master electrician at company B. You don't have to start over as an apprentice electrician.

 

[General Lee]

This applies to regionals only, not legacy carriers. If you leave a regional for a legacy then, yes, you start over. Legacy pilots don't have a dog in this fight.

As for your comment about choosing wrong, an airline can be doing great, have top notch leadership, and have a bright future ahead of it when you get hired. Then years down the road there could be a change of management and the new team could run the place into the ground. No one can see the future. We all make decisions with the information available at the time.

Every Legacy has now been through BK. Many Regionals have too now. Unfortunately, other airlines will head down that road. Unfortunately that is how some airlines control their costs. Still, it's up to you to pick which one you want to fly for, and then just hang on or leave for a better opportunity.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[jetstream]

Every Legacy has now been through BK. Many Regionals have too now. Unfortunately, other airlines will head down that road. Unfortunately that is how some airlines control their costs. Still, it's up to you to pick which one you want to fly for, and then just hang on or leave for a better opportunity.


Bye Bye---General Lee

Thanks for your opinion but I think this is a debate for regional pilots.

 

[Freebrd]

that won't stop putz Jenny Leigh from butting in, such a piece of work

 

[captainv]

Just an FYI: I'm not at Pinnacle

Apologies, an assumption on my part. L-ASA?

My guess is you have time to prepare, but your turn is coming. But the basic message stands, if you're tired of getting played by Delta, the only way that's going to happen is by leaving.

 

[General Lee]

Thanks for your opinion but I think this is a debate for regional pilots.

I'm sorry, but there is no restriction on who may or may not give an opinion. If you don't like my opinion, then put me on IGNORE. Your conclusion about DOH portable seniority on the Regional side only isn't very likely because of the choice of jobs when you start out. Again, go out of the country, like Freebrd did with his friend Dahni, and there may be some opportunities for your experience to go DEC. Good Luck.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[jetstream]

My guess is you have time to prepare, but your turn is coming.

I absolutley agree that my time is coming and so is everyone elses. And when they've made the circut they'll start over at the beginning and do it again.

That's why we need to do something.

 

[jetstream]

What I can't decide is this: Is managment at the other DCI carriers angry with Delta for keeping a competior afloat then using them to undercut us and in doing so taking away potential business? Or are they happy to see the wage scale lowered so they can use it to attempt to lower their own labor costs.

Which do they want more, additional flying or lower wages for the current level of flying?

Hmmmmm

 

[General Lee]

What I can't decide is this: Is managment at the other DCI carriers angry with Delta for keeping a competior afloat then using them to undercut us and in doing so taking away potential business? Or are they happy to see the wage scale lowered so they can use it to attempt to lower their own labor costs.

Which do they want more, additional flying or lower wages for the current level of flying?

Hmmmmm

Probably. But why didn't other DCI carriers come in and bail out PNCL? DL was the ONLY one to give them DIP financing to get out of BK. Where were the other regionals then?

If the other feeders want to create their own business, like Indy Air did, then they can try that, but they also know what happened when that did occur. It's a tough business. The problem was PNCL went BK, and that allowed other things to happen.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[captainv]

I absolutley agree that my time is coming and so is everyone elses. And when they've made the circut they'll start over at the beginning and do it again.

That's why we need to do something.

What leverage do you have to induce change? Could your airline survive the loss of its 50-seat fleet? (That's the probable threat you would face, if not a shutdown.) Unity among regionals is a nice thought, but as long as one carrier is seeking more lift to ensure its survival, it won't happen. Good luck to you, though.

 

[Flyer1015]

I actually like the idea of national longevity list, instead of a national seniority list. That way, you don't bounce someone out of their seat or base, and start at the bottom of the list. However, you should be compensated for your past experience, as people are in just about every other profession. No reason a 20 year Aloha guy should have to start over at 44/hr at VX or 38.50/hr at NK.

 

[jetstream]

Probably. But why didn't other DCI carriers come in and bail out PNCL? DL was the ONLY one to give them DIP financing to get out of BK. Where were the other regionals then?

If the other feeders want to create their own business, like Indy Air did, then they can try that, but they also know what happened when that did occur. It's a tough business. The problem was PNCL went BK, and that allowed other things to happen.


Bye Bye---General Lee

Why would a company bail out one of its competitors?

Who said anything about starting our own airline?

 

[JD2003]

Quit. Do it now. I did and my life is much better.

Why do you think Delta is playing you for a cheap contract? So they have the money to pay the Delta pilots that why. I propose that all regional pilots get together and walk off the job...not to return until we have a seniority number at the parent company and a respectable wage for the equipment. Its time to fall on our swords. I'm doing it and its not that bad.

To hell with regional airlines and to hell with alpa.

 

[flyboyike]

I actually like the idea of national longevity list, instead of a national seniority list. That way, you don't bounce someone out of their seat or base, and start at the bottom of the list. However, you should be compensated for your past experience, as people are in just about every other profession. No reason a 20 year Aloha guy should have to start over at 44/hr at VX or 38.50/hr at NK.

Makes sense, doesn't it?

 

[flyboyike]

But that would likely have to be via ALPA. I think we need to break free of them.

Doesn't have to be ALPA, can be UFCW, for all I care.