JetBlue and ALPA

[Dan Roman]

Just read another thread were that debate goes on so I figured I would toss in some perspective based on our experience from another relatively small airline that's ALPA. We (Hawaiian) are smaller (650 pilots) than JetBue yet there has been no down side from being ALPA at all. The support and resources available from ALPA National has been invaluable to us and instrumental in every contract negotiation we have had. Without it we would not have accomplished what we have, no question about it. It works, we have gone through tough concessionary times and more prosperous times, but the resources of a national union has been extremely important to preserving as much as we could during the tough times and those same resources have allowed us a very good contract that we would not have gotten with an in house union. As with any union, it's really the membership that ultimately drives the results, but don't let anyone tell you that the resources of a national union can't produce huge results.
JetBlue is here to stay, a union will not change anything except yield better working conditions and benefits for the pilot group and if you can keep the internal politics in check you'll do even better.

 

[SAABaroowski]

Well said

 

[CapnVegetto]

I agree totally. I am absolutely for ALPA. Being 'em on!!

 

[Blue Dude]

Sums that up. Thanks, man.

 

[nordo_2]

Good Union. Bad Union. Whatever. Pilots always need a contract. Your management doesn’t work without an individual contract, that delineates all party’s responsibility.

You didn’t buy your car without a contract. You didn’t buy your house without a contract. Contracts are how business is transacted. What are those things worth? Yet, airline managers expect you to be treated as if you’re a charity, and like it. You trade some of your most valued assets: Your time, and your expertise.

Are you a business? Or a charity?

 

[Lake Alice]

Just read another thread were that debate goes on so I figured I would toss in some perspective based on our experience from another relatively small airline that's ALPA. We (Hawaiian) are smaller (650 pilots) than JetBue yet there has been no down side from being ALPA at all. The support and resources available from ALPA National has been invaluable to us and instrumental in every contract negotiation we have had. Without it we would not have accomplished what we have, no question about it. It works, we have gone through tough concessionary times and more prosperous times, but the resources of a national union has been extremely important to preserving as much as we could during the tough times and those same resources have allowed us a very good contract that we would not have gotten with an in house union. As with any union, it's really the membership that ultimately drives the results, but don't let anyone tell you that the resources of a national union can't produce huge results.
JetBlue is here to stay, a union will not change anything except yield better working conditions and benefits for the pilot group and if you can keep the internal politics in check you'll do even better.

-bump

 

[Smarta$$]

Good post.

 

[gearjockey]

Wow.

Amazing that we have a guy from another airline who can extol the benefits of a CBA and actually sells it better than the !@#$-tard, and the rest of the babies. They have got to start implementing a personality index to screen for the defectives or Jetblue is going to be in a lot worse shape than it is now. Lack of CBA is the final piece that's missing here and nobody can figure out how to reel it in. Tard and Splert are the wrong messengers. If and when a CBA gets voted in, somebody needs to dime those guys on BP so we don't fooke it up worse.

Thank you Dan.

 

[Smarta$$]

Wow.

Amazing that we have a guy from another airline who can extol the benefits of a CBA and actually sells it better than the !@#$-tard, and the rest of the babies. They have got to start implementing a personality index to screen for the defectives or Jetblue is going to be in a lot worse shape than it is now. Lack of CBA is the final piece that's missing here and nobody can figure out how to reel it in. Tard and Splert are the wrong messengers. If and when a CBA gets voted in, somebody needs to dime those guys on BP so we don't fooke it up worse.

Thank you Dan.

Agree dude. I want no part of them representing me.

 

[Dan Roman]

Wow.

Amazing that we have a guy from another airline who can extol the benefits of a CBA and actually sells it better than the !@#$-tard, and the rest of the babies. They have got to start implementing a personality index to screen for the defectives or Jetblue is going to be in a lot worse shape than it is now. Lack of CBA is the final piece that's missing here and nobody can figure out how to reel it in. Tard and Splert are the wrong messengers. If and when a CBA gets voted in, somebody needs to dime those guys on BP so we don't fooke it up worse.

Thank you Dan.

My take would be that some good guys would step up to the plate and run for office. I'm certain you have plenty of talent to draw from and those are the ones who would ultimately get elected.

 

[n757st]

For every blowhard on bluepilots there are 20 great guys on the OC that would represent this group well and fairly...

 

[pilotpayne]

Wow.

Amazing that we have a guy from another airline who can extol the benefits of a CBA and actually sells it better than the !@#$-tard, and the rest of the babies. They have got to start implementing a personality index to screen for the defectives or Jetblue is going to be in a lot worse shape than it is now. Lack of CBA is the final piece that's missing here and nobody can figure out how to reel it in. Tard and Splert are the wrong messengers. If and when a CBA gets voted in, somebody needs to dime those guys on BP so we don't fooke it up worse.

Thank you Dan.

well said....

 

[BeachBummer]

For every blowhard on bluepilots there are 20 great guys on the OC that would represent this group well and fairly...

Exactly

 

[WateryGrave]

For every blowhard on bluepilots there are 20 great guys on the OC that would represent this group well and fairly...

Yes, but there also some freaks and losers on that OC list. The OC folks needed to spend a little more time on quality control to keep some of those folks on the sideline. If they want to be yes voters, great! However there was a batch of guys that cost far more votes then they ever recruited. Hopefully the ALPA OC V2.0 will be a group that is a little easier to get behind as a whole.

 

[n757st]

Yes, but there also some freaks and losers on that OC list. The OC folks needed to spend a little more time on quality control to keep some of those folks on the sideline. If they want to be yes voters, great! However there was a batch of guys that cost far more votes then they ever recruited. Hopefully the ALPA OC V2.0 will be a group that is a little easier to get behind as a whole.

The best thing that could happen during the next drive is for bluepilots to be temporarily shut down.

 

[Fins Up]

The best thing that could happen during the next drive is for bluepilots to be temporarily shut down.

Or at least unplug Barney. That dude has issues.

 

[1678]

Yes, but there also some freaks and losers on that OC list. The OC folks needed to spend a little more time on quality control to keep some of those folks on the sideline. If they want to be yes voters, great! However there was a batch of guys that cost far more votes then they ever recruited. Hopefully the ALPA OC V2.0 will be a group that is a little easier to get behind as a whole.

And how would you categorize the "Blue Juicers / BOB's" who spread blatant lies and false information?????

Just asking! Are you ready to keep rolling the dice without a CBA for the next 20-30 years and hope your ELT will take care of you???

 

[Fins Up]

And how would you categorize the "Blue Juicers / BOB's" who spread blatant lies and false information?????

Just asking! Are you ready to keep rolling the dice without a CBA for the next 20-30 years and hope your ELT will take care of you???

If the juicers are engaging their audience in a calm and respectful manner, they are doing a better job of furthering their cause and the beat-em-over-the-head angry union supporter is.

I flew with a guy last week who told me he wouldn't vote for ALPA. I didn't tell him how stupid he was. I asked him reasonable questions like, "How is starting an in-house union with no money and no resources better than going with ALPA where you get all the resources and backing on day one?" I threw in something like, "Let's use those resources to get a contract and if we don't like our relationship with ALPA, we can vote in something else down the road." At the end of the discussion, after telling him I didn't trust the DR to look out for me, I had him telling me all the bs the company puts out that they expect us to believe.

I'm not patting myself on the back, but I'm pretty sure I converted a no-voter into an ALPA voter. This is the only way we're going to get more votes. Some folks will never put aside their emotion enough to look at it rationally. If they do, you gotta let it go and move on to the next.

 

[enigma]

Just be sure you vote in true leaders vs "self agrandizers". Your long term union satisfaction hinges on the quality of your reps, not on ALPA vs whoever.

Good reps = satisfied pilots
Bad reps = pilots wishing they were still non union.

 

[Ski-N-Fly]

Just be sure you vote in true leaders vs "self agrandizers". Your long term union satisfaction hinges on the quality of your reps, not on ALPA vs whoever.

Good reps = satisfied pilots
Bad reps = pilots wishing they were still non union.

Hopefully we can get to that point. Ironically, there are many "self agrandizers" on the property who are the first to lead the anti-union campaign in order to preserve their "special" status.