Why some jetBlue pilots post such extreme negativity.

[CapnVegetto]

What happened to the F/O? I may have missed that part of the discussion ....

Actually, from what I'm reading, neither the captain nor the FO has been fired. At least not yet.

 

[CapnVegetto]

This thread is hopeless "perfect" pilots that profess that life at blue is splendid yet both state that they are yes votes yet both believe that the first time anybody screws up that they deserve to get canned based on the subjectivity of of someone they dont know, never meet, based on unknown criteria that can change at the drop of a hat, and all the while feeling it is completely justifiable to have to spend 6 figures to fight for your job while in the middle of losing a six figure job..

You still haven't addressed anything I said.

Nobody else without a union has a 'defined process'. Why aren't there millions of mass firings a day by managers that 'don't like them'? It just doesn't happen in the real world. Most airline pilots have never been in the real world, so they don't know how most of the time job performance is based on competency, skill, and attitude and not how long you've been there.

This isnt about the player it about the game.. It needs to be defined there needs to be a process. Why have professional standards represent you at a hearing if the company and their marketing department consultants have decided that you are going bye bye regardless. Why tell you that you are fired if you dont show up, fired if you try to bring in an attorney with you, and then tell you that you are fired anyways..

Thats pretty f-ucked up

So? It's all about you? Even though you are the one that f-cked up and put the company in the position of millions of dollars in lawsuits/judgements? This is what it means to be a pilot. This is what it means to have the job that we have. If we f-ck up, people can die and lawsuits happen. This is how it is. If you don't like it, you should be sitting in a cubicle crunching numbers.

I have 15,000 hours have 7 type ratings was a part 91 captain on a beechjet at 22 years old and have flown all over the world from pilatus porters in south america to falcons in the swiss alps to the left seat at blue.. I have never bent a plane or had an event with the exception of a couple altitude busts or a missed crossing restriction. I am also realistic and I know that there is a high likelihood that at some point i may or will screw up. I flown redeye turns and walked into the cockpit wide awake and rested only to find myself slapping myself on the face on final to make sure that i am alert.

You want to get into a d-ck measuring contest? I could care less about your 'experience.' Mine is probably a bit more than you see on my profile, because I am too lazy to update it. There is a big difference between myself and most pilots, though. I have actual life experience in the real world, and I've seen what it's like. I worked, (albeit for a short time), outside of aviation. This is precisely why I harbor disdain for most pilots. All they ever do is bitch and bitch and bitch and bitch.......NOBODY knows how good they've got it. NOBODY.

When you were that 22 year old Beechjet captain, did you have a 'defined process'? If you were part 91, I'm betting you didn't. Did you get fired because the boss one day decided he didn't like you?

Oh and by the way, my first left seat was at 25 in a Citation. I've done pretty much everything you claim you have done, from crossing the pond in a small jet, Central and South America as a PIC, generally all over the world. I haven't been in the left seat at Jetblue. If you're expecting me to be wowed by your amazingness, there is little to any that you have done that I haven't. So I'm not.

Listen man things happen to me to YOU anybody no matter how perfect they think they are. You are NOT PERFECT contrary to what i read in your responses. You or i screw up we may just deserve to ultimately be fired BUT BUT BUT there is a defind process we need to follow PERIOD..

I never claimed to be perfect. Now you're just making stuff up. Nowhere did I say that. But I don't claim that if I f-ck up severely and put the company in a liability/lawsuit position by endangering passengers that I should keep my job. You never did answer my question: What is the threshold? Bending metal? Killing people? What is it?

Regardless of what happended this man should have been removed with pay for 30 days. He should have had an opportunity to get consul, consult and meet with standards, see a statemnt from the company regarding the claims against him and then be given at least 2 proceedings where everyone can present their side of the case, discover the facts, and present their findings. Its called due process.

Depends on the situation. Have you ever been in management? Have you ever been a chief pilot? I have. Sometimes situations are cut-and-dry. Guy fails a drug test......fired. Guy fails an alcohol test......fired. Guy shows up to work wearing only a jockstrap and hits on the boss's wife......fired. Due processs/shmue process. Like it or not, sometimes it's not necessary. Why should you go through a bunch of BS when the situation is THAT cut-and-dry? If a manager feels like that is the case, and there is NO CHANCE of reproach, then they can make that call and save the time and expense.

Don't like it? Become a manager. That's how things are done. If this guy was indeed fired, then management feels like he screwed up bad enough to where there will be no reproach. They wouldn't do it otherwise because they would be afraid of retribution, which would incur an enormous expense in both time and money.

Of course, as I stated earlier, I'm hearing that the guy may not, in fact, be fired at all. He's still in the email system. He's still in CASS. If he is fired, and he is in CASS, then JetBlue is in a MAJOR violation of the rules it and is putting the company's CASS status in serious jeopardy.

All this may just be bull$hit started by the 'burn the place down' guys, anyway.

This man may have deserved to be fired neither you nor I know for sure but the bottom line for the sake of you, me, and every pilot here all the facts needs to be presented in an organized process.

That is NOT always true, as I stated earlier.

Im not trying to argue with you. Im just trying to get you to take the ME ME ME out of this discussion and look at it from an US perspective. That perspective only comes with maturity and experience.

I love it when senior captains invoke the 'US' argument. It is perhaps the most disengenuous thing in the history of planet Earth. It makes me want to puke.

To pretty much every senior captain I've ever met, terms like 'unity' and 'us' seem to apply only when it benefits THEM. By their logic, we should all be banding together so they can get a raise. The minute you ask one to give something up to maybe throw the junior guys a bone, they change their tune. Just look at what is going on RIGHT NOW on bluepilots. There is a huge discussion on the latest FSM change vote about the windows. Senior guys SCREAMING about how a junior guy might actually get awarded a decent trip or two out of like 1000 trips in a month.

F-cking greedy f-cks. Why in the hell do you think we're not voting on the PVC's proposed vacation bidding change? Greedy senior a$$hole captains are blocking it. I just flew with a guy on the PVC. As if the motherf-ckers taking 7 weeks of vacation over the summer and every single holiday isn't enough. Jesus.

Senior airline captains are the greediest, most pathetic, most self-serving pieces of $hit I have ever seen in my life, so you can imagine my absolute disgust when one of them starts preaching to me about 'us us us'. How about a little bit of leading by example, instead of expecting us to capitulate to every one of your demands?

My maturity and experience is far beyond pretty much any senior captain. Why? Because I advocate personal responsibility, pride in your work, and I know that actions have consequences. Welcome to real life. I'm not running around disengenuously demanding unity from the people I'm trying to stomp on. Senior Baby Boomer captains, for some reason, think that junior pilots should be looking up to and emulating them. If I emulated most senior captains I've met/flown with, I'd be an embittered old twat that is divorced 2 or 3 times, in massive debt, kids spread all over the place, and unable to make ends meet on $200K a year while hating my job, life, and demanding that the world take care of me instead of taking care of myself.

I'll pass, thanks.

Are you like that? I don't know. I've never met you. I'm not accusing you of that. But I still find the mentality you are advocating wrong. I was raised to take responsibility for my actions, and to not expect everyone else to bend over to accomodate me. If I get fired tomorrow, so be it. I'll find another job. I'll find another career field. But if I fall asleep, overfly a destination while going NORDO, and endanger public lives as well as my company's reputation, I'm not going to argue that I shouldn't get what's coming to me.

 

[banger]

Actually, from what I'm reading, neither the captain nor the FO has been fired. At least not yet.

Fellow pilots,
JFK Captain XXXXXXX has been terminated for an incident that occurred a few months ago. Many of us feel that this termination was unwarranted and the company did not follow the dispute resolution process that was introduced as a part of the 'five documents'.

XXXX, his wife and five children are coping as well as could be expected during this difficult period. Many of you may know XXXXX from his time as an Airbus instructor in Miami or from flying with him on the E190 or A320 in JFK. XXXXX is well respected by many in our pilot group and we humbly request that you show support for our fellow pilot during this time of need.

Donations can be made via paypal using the following email address:

This Happens when you work without protection.

 

[hoover84]

Fellow pilots,
JFK Captain XXXXXXX has been terminated for an incident that occurred a few months ago. Many of us feel that this termination was unwarranted and the company did not follow the dispute resolution process that was introduced as a part of the 'five documents'.

XXXX, his wife and five children are coping as well as could be expected during this difficult period. Many of you may know XXXXX from his time as an Airbus instructor in Miami or from flying with him on the E190 or A320 in JFK. XXXXX is well respected by many in our pilot group and we humbly request that you show support for our fellow pilot during this time of need.

Donations can be made via paypal using the following email address:



This Happens when you work without protection.

What about the F/O?

 

[CapnVegetto]

He's the FO. Captains are too greedy to care.

 

[CapnVegetto]

Fellow pilots,
JFK Captain XXXXXXX has been terminated for an incident that occurred a few months ago. Many of us feel that this termination was unwarranted and the company did not follow the dispute resolution process that was introduced as a part of the 'five documents'.

XXXX, his wife and five children are coping as well as could be expected during this difficult period. Many of you may know XXXXX from his time as an Airbus instructor in Miami or from flying with him on the E190 or A320 in JFK. XXXXX is well respected by many in our pilot group and we humbly request that you show support for our fellow pilot during this time of need.

Donations can be made via paypal using the following email address:

This Happens when you work without protection.

Dude, that is on Bluepilots. There is more bull$hit on Bluepilots then in Congress.

Oh yeah, American is also buying us next week (for the 2000th time). It says so on Bluepilots.

Look at CASS. If he's there, he's not fired. If he's not there, he's fired. I don't get my 'facts' from Bluepilots.

 

[banger]

What about the F/O?

Good question. Thank you for asking. The FO wasn't terminated. He had to sit some time out without pay. I know the CA was a pro-union guy but I do not know if the FO was or not. The last 3 pilots terminated were pro-union, 2 were on the OC. Clayton was not pro-union. He was not terminated.

 

[B6Busdriver]

He's the FO. Captains are too greedy to care.

Cartoon boy has a classic case of Captain-itis. For the record skippy the FO was the one asleep and he still has a job. Quit making stupid statements.

 

[CapnVegetto]

Cartoon boy has a classic case of Captain-itis. For the record skippy the FO was the one asleep and he still has a job. Quit making stupid statements.

Just keep making $hit up, moron. Keep looking dumber. Every time you do it you amaze me more.

So the FO was asleep, and the captain just sat there with his thumb up his @ss, overflew the destination, and went NORDO while being wide awake?

Really?

Was it a magical pixie fairy that fired him too?

 

[B6Busdriver]

Just keep making $hit up, moron. Keep looking dumber. Every time you do it you amaze me more.

Was it a magical pixie fairy that fired him too?

Captain Cartoon Boy, it's sad sacks like you that jump on the bandwagon saying one of your own should be fired. People like you have lowered the bar to what the profession is today, take a risk and support your fellow pilot!

 

[CapnVegetto]

Captain Cartoon Boy, it's sad sacks like you that jump on the bandwagon saying one of your own should be fired. People like you have lowered the bar to what the profession is today, take a risk and support your fellow pilot!

Ohhhh I'm sowwy.....did I hurt your widdle feewings??

I am not the problem. It is sad sack Baby Boomers like you that refuse to take responsibility for your actions that is the reason for the degridation of both the profession and this country as a whole. You expect everyone else to bend over and clean up your mess when you f-ck up.

I will support someone if they are in the right. If this guy didn't deserve what he got and can prove it he will get DEEP into Jetblue's pockets, and that is a GOOD thing. I will NOT support someone if they are incompetent and deserve to be fired. And I will NOT support a pathetic individual like yourself who apparently has the capacity for personal responsibility of a 4th grader.

The profession is where it is because of people like you. Look in the mirror.

 

[B6Busdriver]

Ohhhh I'm sowwy.....did I hurt your widdle feewings??

I am not the problem. It is sad sack Baby Boomers like you that refuse to take responsibility for your actions that is the reason for the degridation of both the profession and this country as a whole. You expect everyone else to bend over and clean up your mess when you f-ck up.

I will support someone if they are in the right. If this guy didn't deserve what he got and can prove it he will get DEEP into Jetblue's pockets, and that is a GOOD thing. I will NOT support someone if they are incompetent and deserve to be fired. And I will NOT support a pathetic individual like yourself who apparently has the capacity for personal responsibility of a 4th grader.

The profession is where it is because of people like you. Look in the mirror.

Calm down cartoon boy, I mean Captain Cartoon Boy. I'm not much older then you buddy, just got here faster and you now resent me for it. Got here at 33 and now 43 while you got mired down in rj world after 911. I get it, you're angry about your career. That's okay in ten plus years you can upgrade too but you'll always be junior to me. Hahahaha. Cartoon boy take your backpack off and pull the earbuds out and listen, it's always good karma to support your own. JS is a great guy and will land on his feet with a pile of cash but times are tough for him. Someday you might be close to someone that has something horrific like this happen and then you might understand.

 

[Splert]

Ohhhh I'm sowwy.....did I hurt your widdle feewings??

I am not the problem. It is sad sack Baby Boomers like you that refuse to take responsibility for your actions that is the reason for the degridation of both the profession and this country as a whole. You expect everyone else to bend over and clean up your mess when you f-ck up.

I will support someone if they are in the right. If this guy didn't deserve what he got and can prove it he will get DEEP into Jetblue's pockets, and that is a GOOD thing. I will NOT support someone if they are incompetent and deserve to be fired. And I will NOT support a pathetic individual like yourself who apparently has the capacity for personal responsibility of a 4th grader.

The profession is where it is because of people like you. Look in the mirror.

WOW ... the new generation of pilot is freaking scary.

The public conversation has been one way and the pilot has had zero opportunity to defend himself and The Prince of all Saiyans is pre disposed to tell the pilot to clean it up him/herself.

 

[CapnVegetto]

Calm down cartoon boy, I mean Captain Cartoon Boy. I'm not much older then you buddy, just got here faster and you now resent me for it. Got here at 33 and now 43 while you got mired down in rj world after 911. I get it, you're angry about your career. That's okay in ten plus years you can upgrade too but you'll always be junior to me. Hahahaha. Cartoon boy take your backpack off and pull the earbuds out and listen, it's always good karma to support your own. JS is a great guy and will land on his feet with a pile of cash but times are tough for him. Someday you might be close to someone that has something horrific like this happen and then you might understand.

Struck a nerve, did I?

Just keep making $hit up, scooter. Every time you post you look dumber. You know NOTHING about what I've done in my career, because you can't be bothered to read. You just assume everything and prove your stupidity further with every post. Then you try to add insults because I call you out on your stupid bull$hit, make you look like an idiot, and bruise your widdle ego.

I am VERY amused right now. I wish you could see the look on my face. Keep it coming.

 

[CapnVegetto]

I almost half wish I could see what turd-boy was saying, unfortunately he's on my ignore list. It has to be just as amusing.

 

[Splert]

I wish you could see the look on my face.

http://cdn.idolator.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/nicki-minaj-stupid-hoe-video.jpg

 

[Splert]

Opps that was your Dad.

Here you are:

http://www.menshairstyles.net/d/30777-1/men+emo+hair.jpg

 

[B6Busdriver]

Struck a nerve, did I?

Just keep making $hit up, scooter. Every time you post you look dumber. You know NOTHING about what I've done in my career, because you can't be bothered to read. You just assume everything and prove your stupidity further with every post. Then you try to add insults because I call you out on your stupid bull$hit, make you look like an idiot, and bruise your widdle ego.

I am VERY amused right now. I wish you could see the look on my face. Keep it coming.

Ok skippy, keep dropping f-bombs and using profanity. Karma is bitch, I really hope you never have to go through what this captain has experienced. If you do, remember your asinine comments on this board. Widdle? You need to get out more Cpt Cartoon Boy. Best of luck to you, that's right you don't need it because you are better then anyone that has ever made a mistake.

 

[hoover84]

The story doesn't make sense. Why is the F/O still working at JB?

 

[CapnVegetto]

Profanity? You mean like 'bitch'?

I am literally laying down laughing my a$$ off right now.

Check it out, folks. This guy and 'Splert' are the senior guys that we are SUPPOSED TO LOOK UP TO!! They ACTUALLY believe this! They're like kindergartners! If you can't see the irony and sadness here, then I don't know what else to tell you.

The last guy STILL doesn't get it. He never will. He's had 44 years to, and if he hasn't by now, it probably ain't gonna happen.

I'm NOT perfect. I don't claim to be. I NEVER have. That's just more stuff he's making up because he can't win the argument. The only thing I have EVER said is that IF what is going around DID actually happen then he deserves to be fired, process or not, nice guy or not. Actions have consequences. That's life, dude. One day, when YOU are all growed up and mature, you might figure that out.

Of course, they are too busy throwing out insults to see the forest through the trees. Well, I'm rubber and you're glue.

 

[CapnVegetto]

The story doesn't make sense. Why is the F/O still working at JB?

Probably because it's BS, dude.

Nobody but the people involved and the management know what actually happened. Just about everything you are reading is probably made up crap that people fabricate to facilitate their point of view.

Just like computer-stomping-guy, the truth will come out. It will take time. If the guy is in fact fired, there is probably a reason. If there isn't a reason other than 'union busting' or whatever they want to say, then the guy is about to get really rich. Good for him.

This is an internet message board, man. 90% bull$hit. Take everything you read with a grain of salt, including stuff from yours truly.

 

[Splert]

The Prince of all Saiyans and defender of Flightinfo.com

Your mommy must be proud squirt.

 

[clickclickboom]

Jeezus H christ this clown is the most screwed up mentality i have ever encountered on this site.. It is downright scary to think that this individual works here unknowingly sitting next to you or i in the right seat.. I have never seen a person take comments and bend them into the most twisted up logic as captv portrays.

I hope just hope that this guy is just playing the " general lee " or " lorenzo " alter ego for personal entertainment because if that mental case is really as he represents himself he absolutely should not be sitting in our right seat or any plane for that matter.

The guy is basically saying that anyone that is not perfect is an idiot and deserves to be fired, he is also saying that he has complete disgust for nearly every single captain he has ever flown with. He also essentially states that he operates 100% devoid of any error or mistakes.

What is MOST DISTURBING is that in all honesty I can say that nearly 95% of the captains I have flown with are people that I would say I look up to. People that in my opinion are consummate professionals and people who I have had an opportunity to get to know and that I would call friends. Overall just a great group of guys. I was a captain when i came to blue and am now a captain here. I can say in all honesty that 95% of the FO's I have flown with meet that same criteria. They do a great job and make my time in the left seat truly more enjoyable. I enjoy passing along my experiences and sharing theirs that make us a strong and safe crew.

Somebody please tell me how my logic and reality is completely clouded and how Captain V who is essentially showing disturbing behavior that goes beyond "typical banter" on a message board is justified in describing his complete and utter disgust of 95% of the pilots that he shares a safety critical profession with.

That mentality alone lines up about 37 of the 40 holes in the " swiss cheese " in my professional opinion.

Mods can we get some housekeeping on this?

 

[SAABaroowski]

I'm not sure how Jblue works, but at XJT, which is just a lowly regional does not fire pilots who show up drunk or high on crack, yes they have to go through a program, but they do not lose their jobs

 

[$$$4nothin]

You RJ world folks don't know about Frank Lorenzo or that your CEO was reared in his management team for 18 years. You haven't educated yourselves on the financials of bluejet or the major industry average of pay and benefits for a major airline pilot, of which bluejet could easily pay its pilots. You're just happy to be here and oblivious to the manager threats around you. Good luck RJ men, your fate awaits you.

That is exactly correct. Since a guy used to fly at a regional he has done nothing to educate himself about Frank Lorenzo or Jetblue's CEO's history. Regional pilots definitely never study financlials or average market value pay at major airlines. Benefits do not matter at all to regional pilots as we only care about flying pretty airplanes. A guy who has spent 7-10 years at a regional, has a kid or 2 and is in his 30's never studies the industry at all. This is why I came to JB. I only had 5000 hours of Embrear time so I came to JB to get some more of it.

This is the dumbest thing I have read in a while. Let me help you out a bit here. Regional pilots are exactly who you want at JB. Regional pilots don't have a hard on for flying jets anymore, because they already have 7000 hours flying Embraer products. Regional pilots have been beaten down by management teams for year after year so guess who will vote to get away from more management beatings. Guess who has 30 years left in this career, therefore needing as many benefits as they can possibly get. Guess who depends soley on there benefits and not the military's retirement or any recall rights to anywhere.

So you don't want regional pilots filling your ranks. You don't want cape air guys. I have seen that you hate the military guys because they have there military bennies and don't need JetBlue's. Who exactly do you want to apply and work for JB.

Also just a little FYI. Cape air just voted in a union. Every regional except one is unionized. Many of these RJ guys that you hate so much have served on there MEC's and other Union based commitees. So before you start generalizing something you know nothing about, maybe you should do a little research and studying yourself. Just some food for thought.

 

[CapnVegetto]

Jeezus H christ this clown is the most screwed up mentality i have ever encountered on this site.. It is downright scary to think that this individual works here unknowingly sitting next to you or i in the right seat.. I have never seen a person take comments and bend them into the most twisted up logic as captv portrays.

I hope just hope that this guy is just playing the " general lee " or " lorenzo " alter ego for personal entertainment because if that mental case is really as he represents himself he absolutely should not be sitting in our right seat or any plane for that matter.

The guy is basically saying that anyone that is not perfect is an idiot and deserves to be fired, he is also saying that he has complete disgust for nearly every single captain he has ever flown with. He also essentially states that he operates 100% devoid of any error or mistakes.

What is MOST DISTURBING is that in all honesty I can say that nearly 95% of the captains I have flown with are people that I would say I look up to. People that in my opinion are consummate professionals and people who I have had an opportunity to get to know and that I would call friends. Overall just a great group of guys. I was a captain when i came to blue and am now a captain here. I can say in all honesty that 95% of the FO's I have flown with meet that same criteria. They do a great job and make my time in the left seat truly more enjoyable. I enjoy passing along my experiences and sharing theirs that make us a strong and safe crew.

Somebody please tell me how my logic and reality is completely clouded and how Captain V who is essentially showing disturbing behavior that goes beyond "typical banter" on a message board is justified in describing his complete and utter disgust of 95% of the pilots that he shares a safety critical profession with.

That mentality alone lines up about 37 of the 40 holes in the " swiss cheese " in my professional opinion.

Mods can we get some housekeeping on this?

Good God man, you REALLY need to learn to read.

You STILL havent addressed anything. I am done. Doesn't matter what I say, you'll just twist it to whatever suits you.

 

[WateryGrave]

I'm not sure how Jblue works, but at XJT, which is just a lowly regional does not fire pilots who show up drunk or high on crack, yes they have to go through a program, but they do not lose their jobs

Seriously? Pilots going to jail for showing up drunk and you think your company just makes them go through a program? You might want to recheck your rules there skippy. If you come forward and admit there is a problem before they catch you then yes, you get help and they send you to a program. If you show up at work and test positive to drugs or alcohol I'm pretty sure you are done no matter what airline you work for.

 

[n757st]

I'm not sure how Jblue works, but at XJT, which is just a lowly regional does not fire pilots who show up drunk or high on crack, yes they have to go through a program, but they do not lose their jobs

Bullsh!t. Hims programs only work if you self disclose before being at work, and in addition since hims treats alcoholism/ drug abuse as an illness, if you are not an alcoholic and just randomly got drunk and went to work you are probably not covered.

If your pilot pissed out traces of coke, meth, marijuana etc he/she would NOT just keep their jobs, the FAA wont even let them keep their certificates.

 

[clickclickboom]

Good God man, you REALLY need to learn to read.

You STILL havent addressed anything. I am done. Doesn't matter what I say, you'll just twist it to whatever suits you.

Most rational thing you have said in this entire thread. Goodbye

 

[Splert]

.....