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US Airways Contract Projections

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buxflyr

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 27, 2006
Posts
248
Projections from those who may know. Its confusing anymore as to where the court room proceedings are, when negotiations can begin, USAPA sucks, ALPA was worse or better, how the west was won, etc.


Stand-Alone: When would/could negotiations begin? Acceptance of the NIC being the only way?

Merger: Any details on a proposed combined pay scale?
 
Its really a complete waste of time to start any thread on airways. the possibility for rational discussion is not a reality sadly. now cue 8 pages of the circle jerk by the usual 5 people that spew their verbal diarrhea.
 
buxflyr said:
Projections from those who may know. Its confusing anymore as to where the court room proceedings are, when negotiations can begin, USAPA sucks, ALPA was worse or better, how the west was won, etc.


Stand-Alone: When would/could negotiations begin? Acceptance of the NIC being the only way?

Merger: Any details on a proposed combined pay scale?
Click to expand...

Stand-alone: We (USAPA) have asked the NMB to compel the company to return to the table to negotiate everything save for section 22 (seniority). Both parties (USAPA & Company) were to deliver response to NMB on or by the 21st. We wait for that.

USAPA's position regarding seniority is that they "have won", per Silver's court base ruling. Both the company & Leonidas have asked Judge Silver to reconsider some of the order. Not sure when Judge Silver will finish ruling on additional filings.

Negotiations could begin in late winter, early spring.

Merger: Lots of moving parts. APA have a negotiated TA (I believe) with AMR. That is the document that leads who runs what and when. Company still held to a Non-Disclosure agreement presently.

Links to all of the litigation & filings verbatim can be found at: www.cactuspilot.com (no pass words needed for access).

I hope that is the information that you are looking for.

CB
 
Stand alone, expect no new contract for 3 to 5 years.... AMR/LCC expect seperate ops. for 18 to 36 months before a contract .... The East is driving this train wreck in hopes of the impossible, but they hold the keys to moving on....
 
cactusboy53 said:
Stand-alone: We (USAPA) have asked the NMB to compel the company to return to the table to negotiate everything save for section 22 (seniority). Both parties (USAPA & Company) were to deliver response to NMB on or by the 21st. We wait for that.

USAPA's position regarding seniority is that they "have won", per Silver's court base ruling. Both the company & Leonidas have asked Judge Silver to reconsider some of the order. Not sure when Judge Silver will finish ruling on additional filings.

Negotiations could begin in late winter, early spring.

Merger: Lots of moving parts. APA have a negotiated TA (I believe) with AMR. That is the document that leads who runs what and when. Company still held to a Non-Disclosure agreement presently.

Links to all of the litigation & filings verbatim can be found at: www.cactuspilot.com (no pass words needed for access).

I hope that is the information that you are looking for.

CB
Click to expand...


Its good info, but not what I wanted to hear. Thanks though.

If the chance to go to Airways becomes a reality, you really are playing the powerball...or so it seems.

Everyone get their tix by the way?
 
buxflyr said:
Projections from those who may know. Its confusing anymore as to where the court room proceedings are, when negotiations can begin, USAPA sucks, ALPA was worse or better, how the west was won, etc.


Stand-Alone: When would/could negotiations begin? Acceptance of the NIC being the only way?

Merger: Any details on a proposed combined pay scale?
Click to expand...

Strand-alone: The only thing preventing contract negotiations with the USAir pilots is the company's apparent apathy to achieve a new contract with us. The company was highly motivated to secretly and quickly work out a contract with three (3), yes that's THREE unions at AA.

Merger: Pay scale? Well that depends if you want to know the pay scale for the employees that are downgraded, furloughed, or at the outsourced companies... as a result of the tectonic scope changes. Time line? Well since Parker merged AWA and US over seven years ago and hasn't figured out a new contract for the pilots or the FAs... and the country goes over the fiscal cliff in January...

Thankfully the laws of aerodynamics are completely unaffected by any of these things. :D
 
"Strand-alone: The only thing preventing contract negotiations with the USAir pilots is the company's apparent apathy to achieve a new contract with us. The company was highly motivated to secretly and quickly work out a contract with three (3), yes that's THREE unions at AA."

So you noticed that too, eh?
 
If the recall effort is successful in CLT then expect USAPA to quickly give Doug a huge concession... If the CLT reps are recalled then USAPA WILL GIVE Doug the Change of Control protection in our contract.

Giving up the Change of Control is akin to ALPA giving up our pensions, but it would be enough money to probably save the APA's pension, at least in a frozen state.
 
Turtle21 said:
If the recall effort is successful in CLT then expect USAPA to quickly give Doug a huge concession... If the CLT reps are recalled then USAPA WILL GIVE Doug the Change of Control protection in our contract.

Giving up the Change of Control is akin to ALPA giving up our pensions, but it would be enough money to probably save the APA's pension, at least in a frozen state.
Click to expand...

How much has it cost you in terms of unrecoverable pay by supporting usapa?

Whats the payrate for A320 CA/CO? $124/$85

Whats the CA payrate for A330? $159 (thats CAPTAIN, not CO)
 
Change of Control is not a big hand that USAPA thinks it is....Overplaying their hand once again back East....
 
Superbird said:
How much has it cost you in terms of unrecoverable pay by supporting usapa?

Whats the payrate for A320 CA/CO? $124/$85

Whats the CA payrate for A330? $159 (thats CAPTAIN, not CO)
Click to expand...

The prospect of making $124 as an F/O while throwing gear for a Capt 15 years your junior is worse. :D (not that it was ever a choice as some hope or assert).
 
Last edited:
Carl S. said:
Change of Control is not a big hand that USAPA thinks it is....Overplaying their hand once again back East....
Click to expand...

If CoC was in your contract you wouldn't say, "Oh, those are just sour grapes anyway." Did you oppose pay parity too, thinking it would help you to suppress others rather than seek a rising tide for all boats? :D
 
Turtle21 said:
If CoC was in your contract you wouldn't say, "Oh, those are just sour grapes anyway." Did you oppose pay parity too, thinking it would help you to suppress others rather than seek a rising tide for all boats? :D
Click to expand...
Parity should be a reward for cooperation with the process, not rewarding selfish behavior. Besisdes, USAPA couldn't figure out how to capitalize on CoC if Parker gave them a roadmap. These idiots neeed to step aside and let adults clean up their mess and move forward. 5 years and they haven't been able to do anything.
 
Turtle21 said:
The prospect of making $124 as an F/O while throwing gear for a Capt 15 years your junior is worse. :D (not that it was ever a choice as some hope or assert).
Click to expand...

US Air east a320 fo's top out at $85. a320 Capts at $124. Greed is expensive for east pilots.
 
Superbird said:
US Air east a320 fo's top out at $85. a320 Capts at $124. Greed is expensive for east pilots.
Click to expand...

All the East pilots are staring at a pay raise today. Bid award 13-1 came out with sweeping upward movement. More AB 330s, Upgrades, bigger equipment, reserve to line holder, 120 new hires. Nothing greedy about attrition. :)
 
Turtle21 said:
All the East pilots are staring at a pay raise today. Bid award 13-1 came out with sweeping upward movement. More AB 330s, Upgrades, bigger equipment, reserve to line holder, 120 new hires. Nothing greedy about attrition. :)
Click to expand...

There are actually 133 unfilled positions on the award... So it looks like they will need more new-hires than they projected... This bid only had 29 retirements. That's just the beginning. There are many more coming and future bids will have much more upward movement than this one...
 
ALGFLYR said:
There are actually 133 unfilled positions on the award... So it looks like they will need more new-hires than they projected... This bid only had 29 retirements. That's just the beginning. There are many more coming and future bids will have much more upward movement than this one...
Click to expand...

Jump on the train!

The Geezer Meeter hasn't even expired yet and there is now proof the train is already gaining speed as it leaves the station.
 
Well Sir, there is a new East Bid out..

There is a lot of movement and surprisingly the current group of new hires will be going primarily to group-two aircraft. My reading shows

25 CLT 319
24 CLT 737
6 PHL B737
25 PHL AB
35 PHL 190
13 DCA AB

Looks like bottom 330 F/O in PHL is somewhere early 99 and Bottom 767 F/O PHL is late 2004. This bid is effective March 2013, and should be current for the summer season.
 
C Festerpuss said:
Well Sir, there is a new East Bid out..

There is a lot of movement and surprisingly the current group of new hires will be going primarily to group-two aircraft. My reading shows

25 CLT 319
24 CLT 737
6 PHL B737
25 PHL AB
35 PHL 190
13 DCA AB

Looks like bottom 330 F/O in PHL is somewhere early 99 and Bottom 767 F/O PHL is late 2004. This bid is effective March 2013, and should be current for the summer season.
Click to expand...

Bottom PHL 767 FOs are late 2007/ early 2008 hires!
 
dollacrackho said:
To me its boring, embarrassing and an example of greedy retards who are too dumb to negotiate with each other.
Click to expand...
Um, I guess you didn't know that we did, in fact, negotiate with each other and then agreed to let an arbitrator settle it. That should've been the end of the story, right? Or is it greedy and dumb to actually expect both sides to live up to their agreement?
 
Per the transistion agreement, all new (growth) aircraft will be staffed equally by both east and west pilots..

Just so you all know....
 

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