For the CRJ pilots at XJET

[TEXAN AVIATOR]

[FONT=&quot]Just FYI[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
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[FONT=&quot]XJT MEC Alert[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]September 23, 2012[/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]Recently the ASA MEC sent out PBS White Paper outlining the results of their research on PBS. There is a lot of good information about both systems and we respect their right to do what they feel is best for their pilots. However, there is some inaccurate and misleading information and we feel the need to clear it up for our pilots who have seen the paper. [/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]As we have previously stated in our own research, we were able to do parallel bid runs with our line bidding system, ASA’s Flightline system and Crewing Solutions’ SmartPref system. We conducted those tests with the same pairings across each system to determine the advantages and disadvantages of each. To date, the ASA group has not conducted the same testing. The programming of the ASA test environment in SmartPref was not fully completed when they abandoned their testing. Although we respect their opinion, we are at a loss to determine how they were able to evaluate a system without actually using it to see the results. [/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]Most importantly, the White Paper commentary is comparing a system with negotiated work rules to a system that is the base model without any work rules. From the beginning we have stated many times that a system is only as good as the work rules negotiated. Comparing a system with zero rules programmed to a system with contractual enhancements is not a true comparison at all. [/FONT]
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[FONT=&quot]Finally, the SmartPref product by Crewing Solutions does have a customer. They have an agreement with ExpressJet Airlines. We will use this product to enhance that quality of life for our phase 2 pilots and gather further information on PBS and how it COULD enhance all of our quality of life WITH the proper work rules. The SmartPref system has the capability to achieve desired results – for the pilots AND the Company. In furtherance of that goal, we will be in the EWR crew room again next week on Tuesday demonstrating and training for the upcoming roll out of SmartPref in phase 2.[/FONT]

 

[Freebrd]

here we go again, cue Nevets, I guess 11 pages.....

 

[ASA_Aviator]

As long as we have some version of PBS, what's the problem? I just don't want to go back to line bidding.

 

[outtahere]

I want to believe that our MEC (ASA) has our best interest in mind. However, with the lack of communication and the lack of action on obvious contract violations, I can't be sure that they do. I'm starting to believe they are all auditioning for management jobs. I personally sent our chairman an email asking for more communication. He didn't even respond to the email.....

Our LEC in Dulles does a great job and are always there when you need them. Especially Jason. We need new leadership at the big house, or they need a wake up call.

 

[IFLYASA]

What's wrong with our Flica PBS? I think it's swell.

 

[centralpilot]

However, with the lack of communication and the lack of action on obvious contract violations, I can't be sure that they do...

Out of curiosity, to which contract violations are you referring?

 

[SiuDude]

As long as we have some version of PBS, what's the problem? I just don't want to go back to line bidding.

Are you sure about that? Have you asked pilots at other airlines such as Continental or Skywest what they think of their PBS?

 

[centralpilot]

Are you sure about that? Have you asked pilots at other airlines such as Continental or Skywest what they think of their PBS?

Agreed. "Any version" of PBS is not acceptable. Work rules and software make all the difference.

 

[Noise]

[FONT=&quot]
As we have previously stated in our own research, we were able to do parallel bid runs with our line bidding system, ASA’s Flightline system and Crewing Solutions’ SmartPref system. We conducted those tests with the same pairings across each system to determine the advantages and disadvantages of each. To date, the ASA group has not conducted the same testing. The programming of the ASA test environment in SmartPref was not fully completed when they abandoned their testing. Although we respect their opinion, we are at a loss to determine how they were able to evaluate a system without actually using it to see the results.[/FONT]

Just curious, during the parallel bid runs, were pilots able to select their own preferences on each system, or was your committee selecting preferences that they thought each pilot would have selected themselves?

I am glad that both sides are fired up about this still, hopefully it means when we finally get a TA we will have what is best for both groups. I for one, as well as most everyone that I know, has been extremely happy with Flightline. I know yall say that it doesn't work with your work rules, however, in the joint contract, the work rules will be different for both groups. We need whichever system can work best with our negotiated language.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

Are you sure about that? Have you asked pilots at other airlines such as Continental or Skywest what they think of their PBS?

AOS PBS, pure mystery, 100% magic, add no contract, and the cheapest(and not in a nice way) company in the industry, you will hope and bid for what you think is reasonable, and the company will run the bid, then add leftovers titled CN to your schedule. Run don't walk from anything SKYW offers/agrees to. Unless you retain total control of the run and results, Brad and his pack of IT/SS mutant midgets will pervert anything that they can touch. Ask yourself this question, how good has the company been with IT, in the past? Add magic, curtains and greed together and ask yourself, can this train wreck be any worse?
Without transparency you are doomed.
I am in the top 25% and cannot get consistent results, and that is with the assistance of several PBS buddies assisting. When they all say, "I don't know why it did that" that's bothersome.

 

[ASApuppy]

Hands down, PBS has enhanced my quality of life on all but one month since we started it. The one month was in the beginning, and before I figured out how to bid. My relative seniority has not changed since line bidding.

I believe going forward, we need to keep PBS and add additional tools to our ability to enhance our schedule. We need more control of trip construction. We need realistic reserve limits. We need the ability to just flat drop segments. If there is low coverage, then the day needs to automatically be placed at premium time. If the coverage gets further reduced, then raise the premium precentage. It should be cut and dry on Crew Trac. No more scheduling interaction. I think they should put reserve assignments on the board so senior pilots can pick them up if they are short. In short, let people work as much as they want, when they want. But, since these MEC does not want to poll me like the MEC did with the '07 contract, they don't know what I want. And I don't know what the choices are. I will not vote for any incumbents moving forward.

 

[ace6453]

I want to believe that our MEC (ASA) has our best interest in mind. However, with the lack of communication and the lack of action on obvious contract violations, I can't be sure that they do. I'm starting to believe they are all auditioning for management jobs. I personally sent our chairman an email asking for more communication. He didn't even respond to the email.....

Our LEC in Dulles does a great job and are always there when you need them. Especially Jason. We need new leadership at the big house, or they need a wake up call.

Jason does an outstanding job, we need all the reps to be like that. I should also add that AH (atl f/o rep) has always returned my call. Ironically one of the communication committee guys is running for ATL f/o rep. If we can't seem to get but 1 email a month now, I can't imagine how difficult it would be to contact him if he were a rep.

 

[gator_hater]

Hands down, PBS has enhanced my quality of life on all but one month since we started it. The one month was in the beginning, and before I figured out how to bid. My relative seniority has not changed since line bidding.

I believe going forward, we need to keep PBS and add additional tools to our ability to enhance our schedule. We need more control of trip construction. We need realistic reserve limits. We need the ability to just flat drop segments. If there is low coverage, then the day needs to automatically be placed at premium time. If the coverage gets further reduced, then raise the premium precentage. It should be cut and dry on Crew Trac. No more scheduling interaction. I think they should put reserve assignments on the board so senior pilots can pick them up if they are short. In short, let people work as much as they want, when they want. But, since these MEC does not want to poll me like the MEC did with the '07 contract, they don't know what I want. And I don't know what the choices are. I will not vote for any incumbents moving forward.

Those would all be great ideas if we could generate our own revenue and figure out a way to pay for all that. As it is we have a fixed income and a tight budget we need to live within. I'm all for a better QOL, but not at the expense of my company going TU.

 

[Nevets]

My take away from their report is that other than globalization, all their other concerns can be resolved and some of them are being resolved because they were some of the same concerns the XJT scheduling guys had. As for globalization itself, there are things that can mitigate that that we would probably want anyway, such as leaving a certain percentage of open time left over at the end of the solution, composite lines, etc.

 

[enuffalready]

ASA pilot here..... DONT WANT SMARTPREF. Since we started using flightline i have run into exactly 1 person who didn't like it. SMARTPREF = FAIL---globalization = fail. If you want SMARTPREF so badly then negotiate it into the ERJ side and keep it. if its worth so much more to you, then tell company you will take $2 an hour less to use smartpref. CRJ people i have spoken with happy with flightline and not interested in using 1 penny in negotiating capital to switch to smartpref

 

[Cpt Oveur]

ASA pilot here..... DONT WANT SMARTPREF. Since we started using flightline i have run into exactly 1 person who didn't like it. SMARTPREF = FAIL---globalization = fail. If you want SMARTPREF so badly then negotiate it into the ERJ side and keep it. if its worth so much more to you, then tell company you will take $2 an hour less to use smartpref. CRJ people i have spoken with happy with flightline and not interested in using 1 penny in negotiating capital to switch to smartpref

As professionals, who is against looking at all the products available and making the best decision from the facts? Why is there such animosity to asking the tough questions? Has anyone asked what does flight line need to improve upon, or change?

 

[TEXAN AVIATOR]

ASA pilot here..... DONT WANT SMARTPREF. Since we started using flightline i have run into exactly 1 person who didn't like it. SMARTPREF = FAIL---globalization = fail. If you want SMARTPREF so badly then negotiate it into the ERJ side and keep it. if its worth so much more to you, then tell company you will take $2 an hour less to use smartpref. CRJ people i have spoken with happy with flightline and not interested in using 1 penny in negotiating capital to switch to smartpref

Good luck with that. We're bigger, we have more pilots to vote, and our pilots support and believe Steve Mcknight. He's one of the hardest working most selfless pilots at L-Xjt. The majority of us feel this way about the guy. Nobody suspects him of being in bed with mgmt... The CRJ guys I've known for years don't trust their people like we trust ours......

All I'm saying is you're not going to keep us divided, mgmt wants us as one group. Hell even if all the CRJ pilots say they want something and vote accordingly, if the ERJ pilots think another way and vote another way we win every time...... That is if our guys actually vote.

 

[Cpt Oveur]

There is something to be said that one side refuses to admit to researching, then waiting even longer to publish its findings to the constituents, while the other has published its findings almost a year ago? If you don't stop to ask that then you should ask what is each side's motivation.

 

[outtahere]

Out of curiosity, to which contract violations are you referring?

Denial of trades due to lack of coverage. In IAD we require 8 reserves almost everyday, we have not once had 8! It's in our contract that the company will properly staff the airline. Are we? It's getting better, but still not right. Other issues with scheduling come and go. Since we have a constant turn over in that department, they never seem to learn the contract and rely on thugs like hank. Believe it or not, my main beef is with our union. This lack of communication is rediculous! I don't care if there is anything to report or not, put out an email that says "hey guys, nothing new. Just keeping you in the loop." It's sad when we hear from management more than from our union. How do we get the slackers out of the MEC? They are voted in by the LEC correct? Do we start there, or do we just start demanding that David N. step down?

 

[wms]

Good luck with that. We're bigger, we have more pilots to vote, and our pilots support and believe Steve Mcknight. He's one of the hardest working most selfless pilots at L-Xjt. The majority of us feel this way about the guy. Nobody suspects him of being in bed with mgmt... The CRJ guys I've known for years don't trust their people like we trust ours......

All I'm saying is you're not going to keep us divided, mgmt wants us as one group. Hell even if all the CRJ pilots say they want something and vote accordingly, if the ERJ pilots think another way and vote another way we win every time...... That is if our guys actually vote.

Vote in smartpref, an unproven system, be miserable and live with it. Most of us will be gone anyway.

But prefbid is proven and has almost 100% satisfaction. If it was bad don't you think we'd be anxious to get rid of it? And don't pull the asa pilots drink the koolaid line. Asa pilots have never given in to mgmt. if prefbid sucked we would be on board with you.

If you're dumb enough to go for smartpref, then you deserve the consequences. I say let the erjs have smartpref and the crjs keep prefbid. See who's happier.

 

[Nevets]

ASA pilot here..... DONT WANT SMARTPREF. Since we started using flightline i have run into exactly 1 person who didn't like it. SMARTPREF = FAIL---globalization = fail. If you want SMARTPREF so badly then negotiate it into the ERJ side and keep it. if its worth so much more to you, then tell company you will take $2 an hour less to use smartpref. CRJ people i have spoken with happy with flightline and not interested in using 1 penny in negotiating capital to switch to smartpref

The ERJ side would rather keep line bidding, period. And therein lies our leverage. We can simply keep line bidding by doing NOTHING. Of course management doesn't want that AND they also want one pilot group. So it really would be the other way around. If you want your PBS, what are you willing to give up for it, keeping in mind that it also cannot be a concession for the ERJ side in the JCB, otherwise it's not going to be ratified...more leverage for the ERJ side again.

 

[Nevets]

Vote in smartpref, an unproven system, be miserable and live with it. Most of us will be gone anyway.

But prefbid is proven and has almost 100% satisfaction. If it was bad don't you think we'd be anxious to get rid of it? And don't pull the asa pilots drink the koolaid line. Asa pilots have never given in to mgmt. if prefbid sucked we would be on board with you.

If you're dumb enough to go for smartpref, then you deserve the consequences. I say let the erjs have smartpref and the crjs keep prefbid. See who's happier.

You make a good point. The ERJ side will test this system live with no other way to get out of it other than through a JCBA. If its as bad as you guys make it sound, we will be anxious to get rid of it as well! But if it proves itself, has almost 100% satisfaction and we are happier, what would you say then?

 

[wms]

I'd prefer line bidding with the erj rules over smartpref. I believe most pilots feel this way and the true story is the erj mec is sabatoging PBS by insisting on a system they know will never pass.

This isn't about which is better, smartpref or prefbid. It's about the erj mec making sure PBS goes away.

 

[enuffalready]

You make a good point. The ERJ side will test this system live with no other way to get out of it other than through a JCBA. If its as bad as you guys make it sound, we will be anxious to get rid of it. But if it proves itself, has almost 100% satisfaction and we are happier, what would you say then?

have said that from the beginning.... if you want smartpref... go ahead and keep it on the ERJ side... keep your line bidding... we dont care.... just dont infect us with either.

 

[Nevets]

I'd prefer line bidding with the erj rules over smartpref. I believe most pilots feel this way and the true story is the erj mec is sabatoging PBS by insisting on a system they know will never pass.

This isn't about which is better, smartpref or prefbid. It's about the erj mec making sure PBS goes away.

So if we were happier with smartpref, you would rather go to our currently line biding system? I don't honestly think the XJT MEC is trying to make sure PBS goes away. You give them too much credit. If they didn't want PBS, they don't other than the line bidding system we have now, they don't have to do ANYTHING!

 

[enuffalready]

I'd prefer line bidding with the erj rules over smartpref. I believe most pilots feel this way and the true story is the erj mec is sabatoging PBS by insisting on a system they know will never pass.

This isn't about which is better, smartpref or prefbid. It's about the erj mec making sure PBS goes away.

his job to to protect his pilots... i get that... his pilots want line bidding... i get that too. soooooooo, keep line bidding, go with smartpref.. do whatever your erj guys want.... all i know is we are happy with what we have.. we don't want either..and are certainly not interested in using negotiation capital on it

 

[Nevets]

his job to to protect his pilots... i get that... his pilots want line bidding... i get that too. soooooooo, keep line bidding, go with smartpref.. do whatever your erj guys want.... all i know is we are happy with what we have.. we don't want either..and are certainly not interested in using negotiation capital on it

Read my reply to you, post #21 which you ignored. It will take negotiating capital to keep your PBS than to do anything else.

 

[enuffalready]

Read my reply to you, post #21 which you ignored. It will take negotiating capital to keep your PBS than to do anything else.

Good luck with that.

 

[ASA_Aviator]

Read my reply to you, post #21 which you ignored. It will take negotiating capital to keep your PBS than to do anything else.

I think you guys think you are in a better position than you actually are.

Time to get some popcorn before the show!

 

[SoberIrishman]

Could someone from the ERJ side explain in simple terms, why...

1. You seem to have been against PBS from the start.
2. You cannot come to terms with the fact that the overwhelming majority CRJ pilots are very happy with our PBS system.
3. You are not willing to help build on that with improved work rules in a new JCBA.

And finally....the real kicker.....

4. You now tout a PBS system that has globalization, a really dumb idea!

It is simply baffling to the CRJ pilots why you cannot figure this out. Perhaps a better idea would be for SKYW just to keep you guys separated from the ASA side. It seems likely we will never agree.